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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 12:52 pm
hutchtoo
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Default Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

In an earlier thread (1994 Honda Civic won't start) people recommended
that I check the main relay to rule out a failed solder connection (for
example http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html).

Would it suffice to simply touch up the existing connections with the
tip of a soldering iron?

Looking for an easier workaround than re/desoldering just to rule out
this simple part...

Thanks.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 04:44 pm
'Curly Q. Links'
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Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

hutchtoo wrote:
>
> In an earlier thread (1994 Honda Civic won't start) people recommended
> that I check the main relay to rule out a failed solder connection (for
> example http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html).
>
> Would it suffice to simply touch up the existing connections with the
> tip of a soldering iron?
>
> Looking for an easier workaround than re/desoldering just to rule out
> this simple part...
>
> Thanks.



=============================

You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem. In
a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump run for
2 seconds. If it doesn't run, smack the dash and listen. If pump runs,
it's your Main Relay. You car will now start, and the vibration will
keep the relay working until you shut the engine off.

Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet?

'Curly'
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 06:01 pm
Jim Yanik
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Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in
news:4314D33C.2C9325CC@interbaun.com:



>
> Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet?
>
> 'Curly'
>


a broken timing belt will have a CLEARLY different sound;the motor will
spin faster than the usual cranking speed.
It's happened to me on a Civic CVCC.It's like a fast "whirr",rather then
the normal cranking under compression.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 06:08 pm
hutchtoo
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Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

> You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem. In
> a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump run for
> 2 seconds. If it doesn't run, smack the dash and listen. If pump runs,
> it's your Main Relay. You car will now start, and the vibration will
> keep the relay working until you shut the engine off.
>
> Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet?



When I turn the key to position 2, I hear a soft ~2-second whir which is
probably the pump, followed by a non-start. By your logic, that means the
main relay IS working OK, since I didn't need to slap the dashboard...?

My timing belts are probably 15,000 miles old so they should be healthy.

Thanks for the helpful ideas.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 07:49 pm
TeGGeR®
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Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

"hutchtoo" <hutchtoo@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9q-dnUcu5oV4e4neRVn-2Q@rcn.net:

>> You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem.
>> In a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump
>> run for 2 seconds. If it doesn't run, smack the dash and listen. If
>> pump runs, it's your Main Relay. You car will now start, and the
>> vibration will keep the relay working until you shut the engine off.
>>
>> Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet?

>
>
> When I turn the key to position 2, I hear a soft ~2-second whir which
> is probably the pump, followed by a non-start. By your logic, that
> means the main relay IS working OK, since I didn't need to slap the
> dashboard...?



Not necessarily. All it means is that the fuel pump is running for two
seconds.

Reach behind the dash so you can feel the Main Relay.
Turn the ignition to ON (not START)
There should be a click as the Check Engine light goes on, then anoher as
it goes off. You will hear the pump run for two seconds.
Turn the key to START. At that point you should feel a THIRD click.

If you feel all those clicks, the Main Relay is OK. If any clicks are
missing, the Main Relay has a cracked solder problem.

If the Main Relay is OK, turn the key to ON, wait for the Check Engine
light to go off, then turn the key to OFF again. Quickly repeat a half-
dozen times or so. If it now starts, the fuel pump check valve is bad,
allowing pressure to bleed off.

If it still does not start, check for spark as you crank. Buy a cheap spark
plug at the store (doesn't matter what kind), pull one of the plug wires,
insert the new plug, hold the hex part against a ground, then watch the gap
as somebody cranks. Any spark?


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 08:58 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

hutchtoo wrote:
> In an earlier thread (1994 Honda Civic won't start) people recommended
> that I check the main relay to rule out a failed solder connection (for
> example http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html).
>
> Would it suffice to simply touch up the existing connections with the
> tip of a soldering iron?


no. the cracked joints tend to oxidize inside the crack face.
remelting without removing this layer just leaves it in place and
compromises both mechanical strength and conductivity. you need to
de-solder to do this job properly.

>
> Looking for an easier workaround than re/desoldering just to rule out
> this simple part...


the "simple" solution is replacing the relay - it's /guaranteed/ to
work. but that's still more expensive than buying the soldering iron,
solder and de-soldering wick.

>
> Thanks.
>


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 09:01 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

TeGGeR® wrote:
> "hutchtoo" <hutchtoo@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:9q-dnUcu5oV4e4neRVn-2Q@rcn.net:
>
>
>>>You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem.
>>>In a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump
>>>run for 2 seconds. If it doesn't run, smack the dash and listen. If
>>>pump runs, it's your Main Relay. You car will now start, and the
>>>vibration will keep the relay working until you shut the engine off.
>>>
>>>Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet?

>>
>>
>>When I turn the key to position 2, I hear a soft ~2-second whir which
>>is probably the pump, followed by a non-start. By your logic, that
>>means the main relay IS working OK, since I didn't need to slap the
>>dashboard...?

>
>
>
> Not necessarily. All it means is that the fuel pump is running for two
> seconds.
>
> Reach behind the dash so you can feel the Main Relay.
> Turn the ignition to ON (not START)
> There should be a click as the Check Engine light goes on, then anoher as
> it goes off. You will hear the pump run for two seconds.
> Turn the key to START. At that point you should feel a THIRD click.
>
> If you feel all those clicks, the Main Relay is OK. If any clicks are
> missing, the Main Relay has a cracked solder problem.
>
> If the Main Relay is OK, turn the key to ON, wait for the Check Engine
> light to go off, then turn the key to OFF again. Quickly repeat a half-
> dozen times or so. If it now starts, the fuel pump check valve is bad,
> allowing pressure to bleed off.
>
> If it still does not start, check for spark as you crank. Buy a cheap spark
> plug at the store (doesn't matter what kind), pull one of the plug wires,
> insert the new plug, hold the hex part against a ground, then watch the gap
> as somebody cranks. Any spark?


the gap for a standard plug is too narrow to reliably spark at
atmospheric pressure. that spare plug is a great tool to have in your
toolbox, but open the ground electrode so it's at about 45 degrees to
the axis of the plug. then they spark just fine in open air.

>
>


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 30 Aug 2005, 09:15 pm
hutchtoo
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

Good news, I followed the steps below and felt every click. So the main
relay is ruled out. Also tried the off-on x 6, the engine did not start.

The last reco is a little out of my league, I think I'd need more docs about
plugs and sparks before attempting that.


> Not necessarily. All it means is that the fuel pump is running for two
> seconds.
>
> Reach behind the dash so you can feel the Main Relay.
> Turn the ignition to ON (not START)
> There should be a click as the Check Engine light goes on, then anoher as
> it goes off. You will hear the pump run for two seconds.
> Turn the key to START. At that point you should feel a THIRD click.
>
> If you feel all those clicks, the Main Relay is OK. If any clicks are
> missing, the Main Relay has a cracked solder problem.
>
> If the Main Relay is OK, turn the key to ON, wait for the Check Engine
> light to go off, then turn the key to OFF again. Quickly repeat a half-
> dozen times or so. If it now starts, the fuel pump check valve is bad,
> allowing pressure to bleed off.
>
> If it still does not start, check for spark as you crank. Buy a cheap
> spark
> plug at the store (doesn't matter what kind), pull one of the plug wires,
> insert the new plug, hold the hex part against a ground, then watch the
> gap
> as somebody cranks. Any spark?



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 31 Aug 2005, 03:32 am
B Squareman
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Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

"hutchtoo" <hutchtoo@gmail.com> wrote

> The last reco is a little out of my league, I think I'd need more docs about
> plugs and sparks before attempting that.


Remove a plug (or buy one) then reconnect the plug wire to it. Lay it
on the valve cover (metal part of plug) so you see it from the driver
seat and crank the engine over. You should hear a loud snapping or
see sparks. Don't do this for more than 5 seconds. If you are getting
fuel you'll just be dumping it into the on cylinder and not igniting it.

Otherwise, have a frined insert a screwdriver in the wire and hold it
near ground and crank away. Make sure he/she doesn't touch any
metal on the car or the screwdriver.

They also make spark checker.

http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...--TA23920.html

This link is the same as above.
http://snipurl.com/hc3g





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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 31 Aug 2005, 03:58 am
B Squareman
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Main relay solder connections - quick fix?

"B Squareman" <BurtSquareman@none.com> wrote

> Remove a plug (or buy one) then reconnect the plug wire to it. Lay it
> on the valve cover (metal part of) so you see it from the driver
> seat and crank the engine over. You should hear a loud snapping or
> see sparks.


Omit this part. I believe Tegger mention it already.



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