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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24 Aug 2005, 11:20 pm
T L via CarKB.com
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Default 50 Litre Challenge

Hey all,

So Pars posted this article the other day:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/50-litre.htm

It got me to thinking that maybe I could get outta my 98 civic, and into a
new one, and save some dough in the process. I know, I know, everyones gonna
say keep the civic. Here are the numbers.

Currently, I get about 35MPG (13km/L) in the city, and about 42 (15km/L) on
the highway. These are miles per IMPERIAL gallon (4.54 litres per gallon).
I drive about 35000kms (22000 miles) a year, at lets say an average of 13.
5km/L (38MPG). At $1.00 per litre of gas (today's price) I would pay $2600
per year in fuel in my 98 civic. So now, if I can get similar mileage to
what they claim in the above article, and average about say 18km/L, that
means I only spend $1900 per year, or a $700 savings. This assumes that gas
prices aren't going to rise, which I'm sure they will.

And what could I get for my 98 civic LX 5spd with air, cruise, power remote
keyless locks, in pretty damn good shape and 229000kms on it? I figure about
$7000-8000 canadian. I can get into a lease right now for 1.9%, $290 a month
give or take. Or I could slap my big down payment and it would only be about
$125 a month.

So I'd get a new car outta the deal, and it would only cost me about $70 a
month more than I am paying now, less repairs, which are starting to add up
on my civic.

I suppose insurance may be more on the newer model, but I'm in Manitoba, so
not too much of a concern.

Food for thought anyways, anyone have any comments?

t


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 12:55 pm
flobert
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Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:20:05 GMT, "T L via CarKB.com"
<forum@CarKB.com> wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>So Pars posted this article the other day:
>
>http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/50-litre.htm
>
>It got me to thinking that maybe I could get outta my 98 civic, and into a
>new one, and save some dough in the process. I know, I know, everyones gonna
>say keep the civic. Here are the numbers.
>
>Currently, I get about 35MPG (13km/L) in the city, and about 42 (15km/L) on
>the highway. These are miles per IMPERIAL gallon (4.54 litres per gallon).
>I drive about 35000kms (22000 miles) a year, at lets say an average of 13.
>5km/L (38MPG). At $1.00 per litre of gas (today's price) I would pay $2600
>per year in fuel in my 98 civic. So now, if I can get similar mileage to
>what they claim in the above article, and average about say 18km/L, that
>means I only spend $1900 per year, or a $700 savings. This assumes that gas
>prices aren't going to rise, which I'm sure they will.
>
>And what could I get for my 98 civic LX 5spd with air, cruise, power remote
>keyless locks, in pretty damn good shape and 229000kms on it? I figure about
>$7000-8000 canadian. I can get into a lease right now for 1.9%, $290 a month
>give or take. Or I could slap my big down payment and it would only be about
>$125 a month.
>
>So I'd get a new car outta the deal, and it would only cost me about $70 a
>month more than I am paying now, less repairs, which are starting to add up
>on my civic.
>
>I suppose insurance may be more on the newer model, but I'm in Manitoba, so
>not too much of a concern.
>
>Food for thought anyways, anyone have any comments?
>


Had they used the diesel golf, it would have been the clear winner.
Had it been a euro-spec diesel golf, with euro-spec diesel, they'd
still be trying to run it dry. BBC's top gear did a test in an Audi A8
last year, the one with the 4l V8 twin turbo engine, and it got 40mpg.
thats a HUGE car, and a HUGE engine. (talking 6 second 0-100km/hr
performance too). thats ona par with most of those there. Sooner
north america embrases diesel fuel as a modern fuel efficient
solution, and demands modern diesel fuel (current engine designs are
over 20 years old, due to the old fashioned and spec'd dieselfuel
currently on sale which doesn't work in moedrn efficient, quiet smooth
engines)

>t


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 04:29 pm
Steve Bigelow
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge


"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:471sg1lj5tefodtpgfj76u8ij97mgigs30@4ax.com...
> Had they used the diesel golf, it would have been the clear winner.


Well, if you're going to change the rules to include car *you* like, I'll
change them to.

Honda Insight, 40 litre tank, 3.3 litres/100km.


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 04:47 pm
T L via CarKB.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge

Hey Flo,

My impression from what i have read is that Diesel is a byproduct of the
refining process, and that the more diesel you make, the more gas you make.
I even remember reading that the ratio was like 3:1 Gas to Diesel, but can't
remember where.

So based on the above, if EVERYBODY switched to diesel, their mileage would
go up, but so would the price of Diesel. And I suppose the price of Gas
would come down if demand was less.

HMMMMM...

t

flobert wrote:
>>Hey all,
>>

>[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>>
>>Food for thought anyways, anyone have any comments?

>
>Had they used the diesel golf, it would have been the clear winner.
>Had it been a euro-spec diesel golf, with euro-spec diesel, they'd
>still be trying to run it dry. BBC's top gear did a test in an Audi A8
>last year, the one with the 4l V8 twin turbo engine, and it got 40mpg.
>thats a HUGE car, and a HUGE engine. (talking 6 second 0-100km/hr
>performance too). thats ona par with most of those there. Sooner
>north america embrases diesel fuel as a modern fuel efficient
>solution, and demands modern diesel fuel (current engine designs are
>over 20 years old, due to the old fashioned and spec'd dieselfuel
>currently on sale which doesn't work in moedrn efficient, quiet smooth
>engines)
>
>>t



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 05:51 pm
TeGGeR®
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge

"T L via CarKB.com" <forum@CarKB.com> wrote in
news:53638D1E1FD0C@CarKB.com:

> Hey Flo,
>
> My impression from what i have read is that Diesel is a byproduct of
> the refining process,



EVERYTHING that is derived from a barrel of oil is a "byproduct of the
refining process".

http://www.iea.org/Textbase/stats/de...ces/petrol.htm


> and that the more diesel you make, the more gas
> you make. I even remember reading that the ratio was like 3:1 Gas to
> Diesel, but can't remember where.




No. The more of one, the less of the other. You can't make molecules from
no molecules.




>
> So based on the above, if EVERYBODY switched to diesel, their mileage
> would go up, but so would the price of Diesel. And I suppose the
> price of Gas would come down if demand was less.



Correct. Simple macro-economics.



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The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 07:08 pm
Frank
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge


"T L via CarKB.com" <forum@CarKB.com> wrote in message
news:535A679151D68@CarKB.com...
> Hey all,
>
> So Pars posted this article the other day:
>
> http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/50-litre.htm
>
> It got me to thinking that maybe I could get outta my 98 civic,
> and into a
> new one, and save some dough in the process. I know, I know,
> everyones gonna
> say keep the civic. Here are the numbers.
>
> Currently, I get about 35MPG (13km/L) in the city, and about 42
> (15km/L) on
> the highway. These are miles per IMPERIAL gallon (4.54 litres
> per gallon).
> I drive about 35000kms (22000 miles) a year, at lets say an
> average of 13.
> 5km/L (38MPG). At $1.00 per litre of gas (today's price) I
> would pay $2600
> per year in fuel in my 98 civic. So now, if I can get similar
> mileage to
> what they claim in the above article, and average about say
> 18km/L, that
> means I only spend $1900 per year, or a $700 savings. This
> assumes that gas
> prices aren't going to rise, which I'm sure they will.
>
> And what could I get for my 98 civic LX 5spd with air, cruise,
> power remote
> keyless locks, in pretty damn good shape and 229000kms on it?
> I figure about
> $7000-8000 canadian. I can get into a lease right now for
> 1.9%, $290 a month
> give or take. Or I could slap my big down payment and it would
> only be about
> $125 a month.


I am not sure that you could get that much... more like 5k Cnd,
perhaps 5.5k. But if you can get 8k, the math seems to add up.

Go for it!




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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 11:39 pm
flobert
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:29:06 -0400, "Steve Bigelow"
<stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote:

>
>"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
>news:471sg1lj5tefodtpgfj76u8ij97mgigs30@4ax.com.. .
>> Had they used the diesel golf, it would have been the clear winner.

>
>Well, if you're going to change the rules to include car *you* like, I'll
>change them to.


Well, my point was, they stuck to only petrol cars, and not the diesel
versions (there are diesel versions of both the focus and the golf,
and a sizable chunk of GM's european cars are diesel-powered.) Diesel
cars provide significantly better mileage. The A8 was an example of
that - it returned the same mileage as many of the smaller cars, and
its a huge tank, with a large engine. VW also make a lupo (2 sizes
below the golf) and have a diesel version of that which will get
somewhere in the upper 60's for mpg.


>
>Honda Insight, 40 litre tank, 3.3 litres/100km.


Actually, found an article in usa today aboutt he lupo - called the
lupo 3L, it uses 3l of fuel per 100km. Was printed in 1999
http://www.usatoday.com/money/consum...w/mauto497.htm
http://www.ecoworld.org/Home/articles2.cfm?TID=285 is een more
complimentary and focusses more on the economy thing.



>


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 11:40 pm
T L via CarKB.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge

Even the dealer said wholesale around 6000-7500 depending on what needed to
be done to it. It needs rear brakes (I have them, just haven't actually got
around to it yet), and parking brake cables. Also needs a windshield, but
everything else is up to snuff.

We'll see. The dealer is now talking discounts on 05s, so I may even be able
to do better than I originally thought. Especially if I sell my car
privately.

t

Frank wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>

>[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>> only be about
>> $125 a month.

>
>I am not sure that you could get that much... more like 5k Cnd,
>perhaps 5.5k. But if you can get 8k, the math seems to add up.
>
>Go for it!
>
>



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 11:44 pm
T L via CarKB.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge

Tegger, what do you think of the mileage claims in this article? Attainable?
how much of a wuss would I have to be while driving in order to achieve these
numbers of 1022km / 50 litres of gas?

Also, do the mileage numbers from my 98 make sense?

And ya ok so what I said is kinda redundant. But there has to be a certain
ratio of gas/diesel/other byproducts that is more efficient to produce then
just diesel. Having a hard time wording this, but essentially what I
remember reading was from the local Co-op gas retailer. They talked about
having to start up another chain of gas stations to use up the excess
gasoline produced since their regular Co-Op stations were using a lot of
diesel. In other words they had an excess of gasoline, and needed to find a
market for it.

t

TeGGeR® wrote:
>> Hey Flo,
>>
>> My impression from what i have read is that Diesel is a byproduct of
>> the refining process,

>
>EVERYTHING that is derived from a barrel of oil is a "byproduct of the
>refining process".
>
>http://www.iea.org/Textbase/stats/de...ces/petrol.htm
>
>> and that the more diesel you make, the more gas
>> you make. I even remember reading that the ratio was like 3:1 Gas to
>> Diesel, but can't remember where.

>
>No. The more of one, the less of the other. You can't make molecules from
>no molecules.
>
>> So based on the above, if EVERYBODY switched to diesel, their mileage
>> would go up, but so would the price of Diesel. And I suppose the
>> price of Gas would come down if demand was less.

>
>Correct. Simple macro-economics.
>



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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2005, 11:56 pm
T L via CarKB.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 50 Litre Challenge

I dunno man, I live in Winnipeg. When its -40, diesels are just damn
annoying. Making a racket (yes even the newer ones) and all sorts of smoking
and whatnot. A gas car just doesn't do that up here.

If I was to venture to a diesel it woudl be for only a few reasons.

1. I needed a truck. No way am I putting gas into a V8.
2. I wanted to run veggie oil. Of course, in Winnipeg this is harder than
it sounds.

where you from flo?

t

flobert wrote:
>>> Had they used the diesel golf, it would have been the clear winner.

>>
>>Well, if you're going to change the rules to include car *you* like, I'll
>>change them to.

>
>Well, my point was, they stuck to only petrol cars, and not the diesel
>versions (there are diesel versions of both the focus and the golf,
>and a sizable chunk of GM's european cars are diesel-powered.) Diesel
>cars provide significantly better mileage. The A8 was an example of
>that - it returned the same mileage as many of the smaller cars, and
>its a huge tank, with a large engine. VW also make a lupo (2 sizes
>below the golf) and have a diesel version of that which will get
>somewhere in the upper 60's for mpg.
>
>>Honda Insight, 40 litre tank, 3.3 litres/100km.

>
>Actually, found an article in usa today aboutt he lupo - called the
>lupo 3L, it uses 3l of fuel per 100km. Was printed in 1999
>http://www.usatoday.com/money/consum...w/mauto497.htm
>http://www.ecoworld.org/Home/articles2.cfm?TID=285 is een more
>complimentary and focusses more on the economy thing.



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