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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2005, 10:09 pm
Al Franz
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Default Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

Wrote a note in the newsgroups a few weeks ago about a pinging noise my
Honda Accord V6 2001 was making when the engine was strained, going up a
hill. Many gave me good advice and asked to let you know what I find out.

The Honda dealer mechanic went out with us and this is what he said. He
thought the noise was coming from the Hydraulic Lifters. He stated on a V4
this can be adjusted but on the V6 they really don't have any problems and
there really is no adjustment. We looked at the records and noticed 5-30
motor oil as been used the last few times. So they recommended that we go
to 5-20 as the manual states and they also recommended to use Chevron or
Shell gas. Not sure why Honda put in 5-30 when 5-20 is recommended for this
car??? Friends in the gas industry say that the gas issue is nonsense, but
non-the-less I will start using Shell or Chevron. So the plan is to just
live with it for now and the next oil change go to 5-20 weight and see if
that improves the pinging from the engine when straining up hills. Those
noise is most noticable when you stop in the middle of a big hill and then
slowly start up again.

Feel free to add any other comments, thanks for your thoughts on the last
email.



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2005, 10:29 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

Al Franz wrote:
> Wrote a note in the newsgroups a few weeks ago about a pinging noise my
> Honda Accord V6 2001 was making when the engine was strained, going up a
> hill. Many gave me good advice and asked to let you know what I find out.
>
> The Honda dealer mechanic went out with us and this is what he said. He
> thought the noise was coming from the Hydraulic Lifters. He stated on a V4
> this can be adjusted but on the V6 they really don't have any problems and
> there really is no adjustment. We looked at the records and noticed 5-30
> motor oil as been used the last few times. So they recommended that we go
> to 5-20 as the manual states and they also recommended to use Chevron or
> Shell gas. Not sure why Honda put in 5-30 when 5-20 is recommended for this
> car??? Friends in the gas industry say that the gas issue is nonsense, but
> non-the-less I will start using Shell or Chevron. So the plan is to just
> live with it for now and the next oil change go to 5-20 weight and see if
> that improves the pinging from the engine when straining up hills. Those
> noise is most noticable when you stop in the middle of a big hill and then
> slowly start up again.
>
> Feel free to add any other comments, thanks for your thoughts on the last
> email.


they're feeding you garbage.

1. hydraulic lifters don't make noise like pinging - and even if they
did, the noise would not be limited to hills.

2. unless the hydraulic lifters are just /way/ shot, there's no way the
oil grade difference is going to change the lifter noise. oil grade
difference definitely won't change pinging from detonation.

3. doesn't sound like they bothered to check the sensors. if for some
bizarre reason a sensor is connected to the wiring harness so it tests
ok, but is not well accoustically connected to the block, it can't
provide the feedback it's supposed to. or maybe the sensor's just
defective in another way.

bottom line, if the car's pinging, there is something wrong!!! honda
engineers are not dumb. they've designed the car to work on gas grades
much worse than anything we have here, and work well. the car's not
just going to randomly ping without good reason. they need to fix it!
sounds like they're trying to run this car out of warranty on you. keep
bugging them until it's clear that it's cheaper for them to fix your car
than to send you away. call honda customer relations if necessary. the
squeaky wheel gets the grease.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2005, 10:47 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

In article <mImdnS6Z7u2hqG3fRVn-pQ@comcast.com>,
"Al Franz" <albert@nospam.netmation.com> wrote:

> So they recommended that we go
> to 5-20 as the manual states and they also recommended to use Chevron or
> Shell gas. Not sure why Honda put in 5-30 when 5-20 is recommended for this
> car??? Friends in the gas industry say that the gas issue is nonsense,


Not nonsense at all. Different vendors use different additive packages
in different parts of the country. Your vehicle may respond better to
different additive packages.

Around here, for example, putting BP gas into your lawnmower is a sure
recipe for problems. Why? Who knows exactly why, but it's been proven
many a time.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2005, 10:56 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <mImdnS6Z7u2hqG3fRVn-pQ@comcast.com>,
> "Al Franz" <albert@nospam.netmation.com> wrote:
>
>
>>So they recommended that we go
>>to 5-20 as the manual states and they also recommended to use Chevron or
>>Shell gas. Not sure why Honda put in 5-30 when 5-20 is recommended for this
>>car??? Friends in the gas industry say that the gas issue is nonsense,

>
>
> Not nonsense at all. Different vendors use different additive packages
> in different parts of the country. Your vehicle may respond better to
> different additive packages.


if it were fixed timing, maybe, but with a feedback system that's
supposed to have functioning knock sensors? the engine management
computer should be able to cope /way/ outside any changes caused by
additive differences.

>
> Around here, for example, putting BP gas into your lawnmower is a sure
> recipe for problems. Why? Who knows exactly why, but it's been proven
> many a time.
>

mowers don't have sophisticated engine management systems that are
supposed to cope with crappy gas!

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2005, 11:09 pm
Brian Stell
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

Al Franz wrote:
> Wrote a note in the newsgroups a few weeks ago about a pinging noise my
> Honda Accord V6 2001 was making when the engine was strained, going up a
> hill. Many gave me good advice and asked to let you know what I find out.


I have knocking in my 2005 Accord V6 as well. But only in the 2200 to
2800 RPM range when climing a slight grade. Could not reproduce it for
the dealer (totally flat terrain near them) so have not been able to get
help from the dealer.

This only is really bad on one short stretch so I just go slow to keep
the engine at about 2000 RPM (neither I nor the people behind me are
thrilled).

> The Honda dealer mechanic went out with us and this is what he said. He
> thought the noise was coming from the Hydraulic Lifters.


As already stated: the lifters should be affected by RPM (more RPM =
more noise) but not by throttle. And noisy lifters make a clicking or
banging sound, not a pinging / rattling-ballbearings sound.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2005, 05:52 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

In article <ypSdnVNWTdLg3W3fRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> >>So they recommended that we go
> >>to 5-20 as the manual states and they also recommended to use Chevron or
> >>Shell gas. Not sure why Honda put in 5-30 when 5-20 is recommended for
> >>this
> >>car??? Friends in the gas industry say that the gas issue is nonsense,

> >
> >
> > Not nonsense at all. Different vendors use different additive packages
> > in different parts of the country. Your vehicle may respond better to
> > different additive packages.

>
> if it were fixed timing, maybe, but with a feedback system that's
> supposed to have functioning knock sensors? the engine management
> computer should be able to cope /way/ outside any changes caused by
> additive differences.


Oh, if you're talking pinging/knocking only, I agree.

But overall, different gasolines can be better or worse for an engine.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2005, 07:06 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <ypSdnVNWTdLg3W3fRVn-1A@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>>So they recommended that we go
>>>>to 5-20 as the manual states and they also recommended to use Chevron or
>>>>Shell gas. Not sure why Honda put in 5-30 when 5-20 is recommended for
>>>>this
>>>>car??? Friends in the gas industry say that the gas issue is nonsense,
>>>
>>>
>>>Not nonsense at all. Different vendors use different additive packages
>>>in different parts of the country. Your vehicle may respond better to
>>>different additive packages.

>>
>>if it were fixed timing, maybe, but with a feedback system that's
>>supposed to have functioning knock sensors? the engine management
>>computer should be able to cope /way/ outside any changes caused by
>>additive differences.

>
>
> Oh, if you're talking pinging/knocking only, I agree.
>
> But overall, different gasolines can be better or worse for an engine.
>

most definitely!

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2005, 08:20 am
Kenneth J. Harris
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

I don't have any knocking/pinging in my 2003 Accord V6, but if I did
here's what I'd do: Next time you get gas, fill it with premium. If
the knock is no longer there when climbing the grade you will know that
the engine management module/knock sensor that controls the timing is
not working properly and needs to be replaced. Your car and mine should
not knock when using regular gas. As far as getting the dealer to do
something, you will probably have to be more agressive and go up the
Honda ladder past your local dealer's service manager.

Brian Stell wrote:
> Al Franz wrote:
>
>> Wrote a note in the newsgroups a few weeks ago about a pinging noise
>> my Honda Accord V6 2001 was making when the engine was strained, going
>> up a hill. Many gave me good advice and asked to let you know what I
>> find out.

>
>
> I have knocking in my 2005 Accord V6 as well. But only in the 2200 to
> 2800 RPM range when climing a slight grade. Could not reproduce it for
> the dealer (totally flat terrain near them) so have not been able to get
> help from the dealer.
>
> This only is really bad on one short stretch so I just go slow to keep
> the engine at about 2000 RPM (neither I nor the people behind me are
> thrilled).
>
>> The Honda dealer mechanic went out with us and this is what he said.
>> He thought the noise was coming from the Hydraulic Lifters.

>
>
> As already stated: the lifters should be affected by RPM (more RPM =
> more noise) but not by throttle. And noisy lifters make a clicking or
> banging sound, not a pinging / rattling-ballbearings sound.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2005, 09:25 am
T.C.-TopCat
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 20:09:21 -0700, "Al Franz"
<albert@nospam.netmation.com> wrote:

>Wrote a note in the newsgroups a few weeks ago about a pinging noise my
>Honda Accord V6 2001 was making when the engine was strained, going up a
>hill. Many gave me good advice and asked to let you know what I find out.
>
>The Honda dealer mechanic went out with us and this is what he said. He
>thought the noise was coming from the Hydraulic Lifters. He stated on a V4
>this can be adjusted but on the V6 they really don't have any problems and
>there really is no adjustment. We looked at the records and noticed 5-30
>motor oil as been used the last few times. So they recommended that we go
>to 5-20 as the manual states and they also recommended to use Chevron or
>Shell gas. Not sure why Honda put in 5-30 when 5-20 is recommended for this



Try filling up with 93 octain. I live in mountains and my Honda and
Toyota both knock when I use the low octain (no matter who I purchase
it from). That took care of mine.

TC
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03 Aug 2005, 11:29 am
Brian Stell
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mechanic Answer on Honda V6 Pinging Noise Up Hill

Kenneth J. Harris wrote:
> I don't have any knocking/pinging in my 2003 Accord
> V6, but if I did here's what I'd do: Next time you
> get gas, fill it with premium. If the knock is no
> longer there when climbing the grade you will know
> that the engine management module/knock sensor that
> controls the timing is not working properly and needs
> to be replaced.


I've tried lots of different gasolines: from Techron
Supreme & regular to Shell 91 & 87 to no-name regulars.
The pre-ignition is least on the Techron Supreme
(unfortunately I was trying to keep it from knocking so
that is what the car had at the time I took it to the
dealer :-( Next time I go to the dealer I will put in
some really cheap stuff.

I suspect the sensor/electronics are working but that
there are conditions where it doesn't quite do enough.

> Your car and mine should not knock when using regular
> gas.


Agreed. Or high octane!

> As far as getting the dealer to do something, you will
> probably have to be more agressive and go up the
> Honda ladder past your local dealer's service manager.


The big problem is I have to figure out how to reliably
reproduce the problem when the service tech is in the
car. It does not occur 100% of the time. Like the original
poster's car it only happens under certain conditions. So
until I'm able to demonstrate it to them I doubt anyone
will do much. At least they were polite and didn't openly
say I was crazy. They even had a tech ride with me to
see if I could reproduce the problem. I tried a variety
of things including using the brakes to simulate the
load from a hill but I could not get the car to knock
when they were in it. It was when I mentioned the
knocking tended to occur when climbing a grade that the
service tech went from disbelief to thinking the problem
might be real. That seemed to mean something to him.
They were going to look into it and get back to me but
that was a couple of months ago so ...

I now am paying attention for the topography (hills)
near Honda dealers :-) and I'm trying to detect if the
knocking is affected by outside or engine temperature or
other conditions.
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