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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24 Sep 2010, 06:08 pm
Bob
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Default Interference Engines ?

Hello,

What's an "interference engine" ?

Saw the term on all the posts re timing belts.

Thanks,
B.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 24 Sep 2010, 08:03 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: Interference Engines ?

Bob <rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in news:i7jb1k$i2l$1@news.eternal-september.org:

> Hello,
>
> What's an "interference engine" ?
>
> Saw the term on all the posts re timing belts.
>
> Thanks,
> B.
>



A quick Google reveals...
<http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22interference+engi ne%22&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=8d9c50a61d5b9175>

In a nutshell, pistons and valves like to dance by themselves. If one
steps on the other's toes, expensive chaos ensues.

Some manufacturers design the valves and pistons to have their own private
dance floor. Honda makes those parts /share/ the dance floor (or at least
parts of it), meaning that something has to tell the first dancer when
to leave so the second may perform without interfering with the first.
That's the job of the timing chain or belt.

Why does Honda do this? Apparently the engine works better when the
valves and pistons share a dance floor.


--
Tegger
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 24 Sep 2010, 10:41 pm
Erik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Interference Engines ?

In article <Xns9DFDD618EEDC6tegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:

> Bob <rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in
> news:i7jb1k$i2l$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > What's an "interference engine" ?
> >
> > Saw the term on all the posts re timing belts.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > B.
> >

>
>
> A quick Google reveals...
> <http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&h...ence+engine%22
> &aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=8d9c50a61d5b9175>
>
> In a nutshell, pistons and valves like to dance by themselves. If one
> steps on the other's toes, expensive chaos ensues.
>
> Some manufacturers design the valves and pistons to have their own private
> dance floor. Honda makes those parts /share/ the dance floor (or at least
> parts of it), meaning that something has to tell the first dancer when
> to leave so the second may perform without interfering with the first.
> That's the job of the timing chain or belt.
>
> Why does Honda do this? Apparently the engine works better when the
> valves and pistons share a dance floor.


Check this as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_Engines

Erik
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 25 Sep 2010, 07:08 am
Jim Yanik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Interference Engines ?

Erik <spam@this.com> wrote in
news:spam-513C30.20414024092010@news.dslextreme.com:

> In article <Xns9DFDD618EEDC6tegger@208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob <rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in
>> news:i7jb1k$i2l$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > What's an "interference engine" ?
>> >
>> > Saw the term on all the posts re timing belts.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > B.
>> >

>>
>>
>> A quick Google reveals...
>> <http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&h...interference+e
>> ngine%22
>> &aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=8d9c50a61d5b9175>
>>
>> In a nutshell, pistons and valves like to dance by themselves. If one
>> steps on the other's toes, expensive chaos ensues.
>>
>> Some manufacturers design the valves and pistons to have their own
>> private dance floor. Honda makes those parts /share/ the dance floor
>> (or at least parts of it), meaning that something has to tell the
>> first dancer when to leave so the second may perform without
>> interfering with the first. That's the job of the timing chain or
>> belt.
>>
>> Why does Honda do this? Apparently the engine works better when the
>> valves and pistons share a dance floor.

>
> Check this as well.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_Engines
>
> Erik
>


or simply put,if the timing belt breaks,the valve train stops turning,and
valves may be left in a position where a piston can strike a valve,damaging
both the valve and piston.

making a very expensive repair.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 28 Sep 2010, 09:29 am
Dillon Pyron
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Interference Engines ?

Thus spake Tegger <invalid@example.com> :

>Bob <rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in news:i7jb1k$i2l$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> What's an "interference engine" ?
>>
>> Saw the term on all the posts re timing belts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> B.
>>

>
>
>A quick Google reveals...
><http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22interference+engi ne%22&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=8d9c50a61d5b9175>
>
>In a nutshell, pistons and valves like to dance by themselves. If one
>steps on the other's toes, expensive chaos ensues.
>
>Some manufacturers design the valves and pistons to have their own private
>dance floor. Honda makes those parts /share/ the dance floor (or at least
>parts of it), meaning that something has to tell the first dancer when
>to leave so the second may perform without interfering with the first.
>That's the job of the timing chain or belt.


And they do this dance twice per cycle.
>
>Why does Honda do this? Apparently the engine works better when the
>valves and pistons share a dance floor.


If the intake cycle starts to open while the exhaust valve is still
open (with electronic port injectors helping out) fresh air improves
the exhaust.

Some of the high, high end makes have experimented with electronic or
pnuematic "cams" to improve this depending on piston speed. Think F1.
Think a team that quit at the end of last year.

If it were an 11 to 1 race car, I could understand this concept, but
not a street car.

In fact, many of the high compression pistions I've seen are sculpted.
To accomadate the valves, that usually have much higher and longer
lift.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

Toby (Tri-Umph That's the Sweet Truth)
March 1998 - June 2010
What a dog. What a dog!

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 28 Sep 2010, 09:35 am
Dillon Pyron
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Interference Engines ?

Thus spake Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> :

>Erik <spam@this.com> wrote in
>news:spam-513C30.20414024092010@news.dslextreme.com:
>
>> In article <Xns9DFDD618EEDC6tegger@208.90.168.18>,
>> Tegger <invalid@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bob <rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:i7jb1k$i2l$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>> > Hello,
>>> >
>>> > What's an "interference engine" ?
>>> >
>>> > Saw the term on all the posts re timing belts.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > B.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> A quick Google reveals...
>>> <http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&h...interference+e
>>> ngine%22
>>> &aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=8d9c50a61d5b9175>
>>>
>>> In a nutshell, pistons and valves like to dance by themselves. If one
>>> steps on the other's toes, expensive chaos ensues.
>>>
>>> Some manufacturers design the valves and pistons to have their own
>>> private dance floor. Honda makes those parts /share/ the dance floor
>>> (or at least parts of it), meaning that something has to tell the
>>> first dancer when to leave so the second may perform without
>>> interfering with the first. That's the job of the timing chain or
>>> belt.
>>>
>>> Why does Honda do this? Apparently the engine works better when the
>>> valves and pistons share a dance floor.

>>
>> Check this as well.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_Engines
>>
>> Erik
>>

>
>or simply put,if the timing belt breaks,the valve train stops turning,and
>valves may be left in a position where a piston can strike a valve,damaging
>both the valve and piston.
>
>making a very expensive repair.


Yeah, our 84 Escort GT did this with a little over 3000 miles on it.
It took almost a year and calls from our lawyer to Ford's general
counsle to get paid for the repair, the tow, the legal fees and
"general inconvenice". We wanted a recall, they insisted on a TSB.
And we got an agreement on no NDA after 6 yeas.

--

- dillon I am not invalid

Toby (Tri-Umph That's the Sweet Truth)
March 1998 - June 2010
What a dog. What a dog!

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 28 Sep 2010, 09:47 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Interference Engines ?

On 09/28/2010 07:29 AM, Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake Tegger<invalid@example.com> :
>
>> Bob<rgsros@notme.invalid> wrote in news:i7jb1k$i2l$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> What's an "interference engine" ?
>>>
>>> Saw the term on all the posts re timing belts.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> B.
>>>

>>
>>
>> A quick Google reveals...
>> <http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22interference+engi ne%22&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=8d9c50a61d5b9175>
>>
>> In a nutshell, pistons and valves like to dance by themselves. If one
>> steps on the other's toes, expensive chaos ensues.
>>
>> Some manufacturers design the valves and pistons to have their own private
>> dance floor. Honda makes those parts /share/ the dance floor (or at least
>> parts of it), meaning that something has to tell the first dancer when
>> to leave so the second may perform without interfering with the first.
>> That's the job of the timing chain or belt.

>
> And they do this dance twice per cycle.
>>
>> Why does Honda do this? Apparently the engine works better when the
>> valves and pistons share a dance floor.

>
> If the intake cycle starts to open while the exhaust valve is still
> open (with electronic port injectors helping out) fresh air improves
> the exhaust.


that's called "overlapping" valve timing, and it's been used on overhead
cam car engines since about 1923. it's got nothing to do with "fresh
air" in the exhaust but everything to do with scavenging the contents of
the cylinder and improving volumetric efficiency.


>
> Some of the high, high end makes have experimented with electronic or
> pnuematic "cams" to improve this depending on piston speed.


not exactly. all variable valve timing systems are mechanical with
electronic control. "piston speed" is also grabbing the wrong end of
the stick - it's all about the overlap needed to scavenge successfully.


> Think F1.


no, think honda v-tec. think toyota, think bmw, think fiat, etc. the
pneumatic systems used in f1 are simply reverberation-free valve return
springs and have nothing to do with variable valve timing - something f1
typically doesn't bother with since the engine is used in a narrow rev
range where variable valve timing is irrelevant.


> Think a team that quit at the end of last year.
>
> If it were an 11 to 1 race car, I could understand this concept, but
> not a street car.
>
> In fact, many of the high compression pistions I've seen are sculpted.
> To accomadate the valves, that usually have much higher and longer
> lift.


that's because of the valve's lift and duration. variable valve timing
has nothing to do with it.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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