Honda Car Forum

I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;

1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?

2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
this something better left to the pros)?

Thanks!

Matt wrote:
> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>
> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?

yes, check the pcv valve, or better yet, replace. the genuine honda
article [the only one worth using] is about $12.

the tube pulls out of the collector box under the manifold. clean it
up, or buy a new one.

apart from mechanical wear, other factors affecting oil consumption include:
1. mixture - if your oxygen sensor is failing, you can have rich mixture
which in turn dilutes & burns oil
2. insufficient coolant - causes rich mixture because the engine temp
sensor is not sending the right signal to the ecu.
3. timing - if too advanced, can cause higher than normal combustion
temps. not necessarily going to cause overheating as per the temp
gauge, but will run the pistons hotter than normal, cause more oil
vaporization than normal, etc...
4. if an automatic, egr valve operation. apparently, correct egr valve
operation reduces combustion temps.

also check for leaks, particularly the oil pan gasket - sometimes bolts
disappear. replace if necessary. the main seal on my 89 leaks badly
with some oil brands, not others. so far, castrol gtx seems to be
treating my oil seals just right. may take a couple of changes for that
to show though.

>
> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
> this something better left to the pros)?

easy to do yourself. read tegger's faq's, especially the bit about
using genuine silicone grease on reassembly.

>
> Thanks!
>

check your valve cover gasket and the little spark plug tube seals. that's
the main spot where you'll lose oil from. with that high of miles it's
probably due to have that changed. it's $30 for a fel pro set at autozone
and you can install it yourself. just becareful how you remove the valve
cover not to scratch the surface of the head. wrap a soft rag around a screw
driver to pry it off the head or tap it lightly with a rubber mallet until
it breaks loose. i have the same year of civic. mine needed that replaced
and all oil consumption stopped. as far as the brakes they're not hard to
fix as you saw. it is a common sense step by step mechanical repair.


-jeff


"jim beam"
<nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:MqGdnUGSWeOkPDjfRVn-ig@speakeasy.net...
> Matt wrote:
>> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
>> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>>
>> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
>> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
>> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
>> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
>> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
>> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>
> yes, check the pcv valve, or better yet, replace. the genuine honda
> article [the only one worth using] is about $12.
>
> the tube pulls out of the collector box under the manifold. clean it up,
> or buy a new one.
>
> apart from mechanical wear, other factors affecting oil consumption
> include:
> 1. mixture - if your oxygen sensor is failing, you can have rich mixture
> which in turn dilutes & burns oil
> 2. insufficient coolant - causes rich mixture because the engine temp
> sensor is not sending the right signal to the ecu.
> 3. timing - if too advanced, can cause higher than normal combustion
> temps. not necessarily going to cause overheating as per the temp gauge,
> but will run the pistons hotter than normal, cause more oil vaporization
> than normal, etc...
> 4. if an automatic, egr valve operation. apparently, correct egr valve
> operation reduces combustion temps.
>
> also check for leaks, particularly the oil pan gasket - sometimes bolts
> disappear. replace if necessary. the main seal on my 89 leaks badly with
> some oil brands, not others. so far, castrol gtx seems to be treating my
> oil seals just right. may take a couple of changes for that to show
> though.
>
>>
>> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
>> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
>> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
>> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
>> this something better left to the pros)?
>
> easy to do yourself. read tegger's faq's, especially the bit about using
> genuine silicone grease on reassembly.
>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

In article <1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>, "Matt"
<rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>
> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>
> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
> this something better left to the pros)?
>
> Thanks!

Matt,
I read the other posts and they provided some great advice. I hope those
low cost solutions solve your problem. If not, do a pressure (aka
compression) test on each of the cylinders. It's possible that one or more
of the rings needs to be replaced--it's very expensive to replace rings
since it involves taking the engine apart. However, with older cars that
have over 150,000 miles on the odometer--it's one of those things that has
to be done if you plan to keep the car. It's one of the main reasons that
lots of people trade in their cars after they have over 150,000 miles on
the odometer. In some cases, it's cheaper to install a rebuilt engine.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

hondas normally don't need an engine overhaul even beyond 200,000 miles if
they were maintained normally. my last civic was an '87 and it had about
210,000 miles on it when i sold it and it still didn't burned any oil. if he
sees blue smoke from the exhaust then he'll know the rings are bad or vavle
guides and then it will be worthless to fix the minor oil leak unless thats
taken care of to. but i know from having that same year of civic that he has
and the 16 valve engine in them are excellent and would've had to have been
neglected alot for the rings to be shot. my civic was neglected when i
bought it and even has a tick in the engine and still is not burning oil. my
main thing is to keep the oil changed with a good name brand of castrol or
valveline (valveline in the winter) and fram oil filters.

-jeff

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-0706050805180001@pm4-broad-16.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>, "Matt"
> <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
>> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>>
>> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
>> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
>> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
>> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
>> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
>> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>>
>> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
>> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
>> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
>> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
>> this something better left to the pros)?
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> Matt,
> I read the other posts and they provided some great advice. I hope those
> low cost solutions solve your problem. If not, do a pressure (aka
> compression) test on each of the cylinders. It's possible that one or more
> of the rings needs to be replaced--it's very expensive to replace rings
> since it involves taking the engine apart. However, with older cars that
> have over 150,000 miles on the odometer--it's one of those things that has
> to be done if you plan to keep the car. It's one of the main reasons that
> lots of people trade in their cars after they have over 150,000 miles on
> the odometer. In some cases, it's cheaper to install a rebuilt engine.
> Jason
>
> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>

"Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:

> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>
> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?


Pull off the end you can reach and stick a pipe cleaner or Q-Tip in there.
If it comes out loaded with sludge, then you've got deeper problems than
just a plugged breather. If it's clear, then you're fine.

The car will not smoke until you're down to 100-200 miles/qt. Before then
the cat burns it all off.

If you have no external leaks, then you either have
1) Worn oil control rings, or
2) Worn valve guide oil seals.

Watch the exhaust first thing in the morning after the car has sat
overnight. If there is NO puff of blue smoke as the engiine fires, then the
valve guide seals are OK and your rings are bad. It can also be a
combination of both rings and seals.

Seal replacement basically means removing the head, and it's not cheap.

My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.


>
> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.


It is.

Your caliper piston is rusty and has damaged the hydraulic seal, or else
the rust on the caliper body has migrated in far enough to push the seal
our of its groove in the caliper body. Either way, replacement is the cure.
If it's the piston causing the leak, a rebuild is possible.

More info here, not hydraulically related:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes1.html



> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
> this something better left to the pros)?


Don't get any dirt in there while you have the hydraulics open.

Go to www.googlegroups.com for:
tegger saran caliper

for another post on this subject.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

In article <0tjpe.2411$Oq7.346@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>, "hondaman"
<jeffscomp@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> hondas normally don't need an engine overhaul even beyond 200,000 miles if
> they were maintained normally. my last civic was an '87 and it had about
> 210,000 miles on it when i sold it and it still didn't burned any oil. if he
> sees blue smoke from the exhaust then he'll know the rings are bad or vavle
> guides and then it will be worthless to fix the minor oil leak unless thats
> taken care of to. but i know from having that same year of civic that he has
> and the 16 valve engine in them are excellent and would've had to have been
> neglected alot for the rings to be shot. my civic was neglected when i
> bought it and even has a tick in the engine and still is not burning oil. my
> main thing is to keep the oil changed with a good name brand of castrol or
> valveline (valveline in the winter) and fram oil filters.
>
> -jeff

Jeff,
I agree that if a Civic is well maintained, it should not need an engine
overhaul until after 200,000 miles. However, as you probably know, many
cars--including Accords and Civics--are not well maintained. Since the
original poster did not see blue smoke fromt the exhaust, we can all hope
that his motor does not have to be rebuilt. Tegger provided some excellent
advice and mentioned some items that I did not even think of until I read
his post. It's been a long time since I done any serious work on engines.
It's great to have tegger in this newsgroup since he is an expert on Honda
engines. I learned a lot from visiting his website.
Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

On that note, i have just bought a 87' civic commuter car. 32k when i got it, over 40k now. It's a auto w/carbs, fueleconomy.gov
says 28mpg for this model. I am getting about 32mpg, last tank was 33.8mpg but i am thinking of bumping up the timing a touch to
see if it improves. The car is only driven on the highway back and forth to work, parked all weekend. I found the timing light in
the garage (from the days of points),so i can see where it currently is at. Maybe different heat range plug along with a timing
increase to improve mpg a little more?

> 3. timing - if too advanced, can cause higher than normal combustion
> temps. not necessarily going to cause overheating as per the temp
> gauge, but will run the pistons hotter than normal, cause more oil
> vaporization than normal, etc...

"Robert Mozeleski" <moz@ncx.com> wrote in
news:_7mdnV27PuHJsTvfRVn-og@nni.com:

> On that note, i have just bought a 87' civic commuter car. 32k when i
> got it, over 40k now. It's a auto w/carbs, fueleconomy.gov says 28mpg
> for this model. I am getting about 32mpg, last tank was 33.8mpg but i
> am thinking of bumping up the timing a touch to see if it improves.


Bad idea. You can cause detonation, which can wreck your engine in short
order if bad enough. You have no knock sensor to save you. Leave it where
it is. Any mileage gain will be hardly noticeable.

Also, with the mileage you report, you may be running pretty lean already.
Do you have emissions testing in your area? If so, you can bring it in and
get the readings. That will be a *big* giveaway for how lean you're
running.


> The car is only driven on the highway back and forth to work, parked
> all weekend. I found the timing light in the garage (from the days of
> points),so i can see where it currently is at. Maybe different heat
> range plug along with a timing increase to improve mpg a little more?


Won't do a thing.

One thing that *can* result in an increase in mileage is the Motorvac
engine clean service. If there are significant deposits on your intake
valves and/or in the combustion chamber, Motorvac will remove much of it,
bringing the engine closer to its design specifications.

However, at 32mpg you sound like you're doing pretty well as it is. By
tinkering, you risk breaking what ain't broke. Our '99 Tercel gets about
33mpg on the highway.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

i'll bet he has no internal engine issue and it has a bad valve cover
gasket. my '89 civic had 148,000 miles on it when i bought it and it had a
nasty leak from the valve cover gasket. pull a spark plug and if it comes
out with oil soaked around the threads then you'll know what i'm talking
about. oil gathering from worn out spark plug tube gaskets. you'll know if
you're burning oil from a bad engine because smoke is going to show up
sooner or later.


-jeff
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns966E9731CC093tegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:
>
>> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
>> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>>
>> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
>> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
>> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
>> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
>> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
>> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>
>
> Pull off the end you can reach and stick a pipe cleaner or Q-Tip in there.
> If it comes out loaded with sludge, then you've got deeper problems than
> just a plugged breather. If it's clear, then you're fine.
>
> The car will not smoke until you're down to 100-200 miles/qt. Before then
> the cat burns it all off.
>
> If you have no external leaks, then you either have
> 1) Worn oil control rings, or
> 2) Worn valve guide oil seals.
>
> Watch the exhaust first thing in the morning after the car has sat
> overnight. If there is NO puff of blue smoke as the engiine fires, then
> the
> valve guide seals are OK and your rings are bad. It can also be a
> combination of both rings and seals.
>
> Seal replacement basically means removing the head, and it's not cheap.
>
> My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.
>
>
>>
>> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
>> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
>> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
>
>
> It is.
>
> Your caliper piston is rusty and has damaged the hydraulic seal, or else
> the rust on the caliper body has migrated in far enough to push the seal
> our of its groove in the caliper body. Either way, replacement is the
> cure.
> If it's the piston causing the leak, a rebuild is possible.
>
> More info here, not hydraulically related:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes1.html
>
>
>
>> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
>> this something better left to the pros)?
>
>
> Don't get any dirt in there while you have the hydraulics open.
>
> Go to www.googlegroups.com for:
> tegger saran caliper
>
> for another post on this subject.
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/