Honda Car Forum

Top ten all american sports cars
http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/...orts-cars.html

jack wrote:
> Top ten all american sports cars
> http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/...orts-cars.html


TOP ten? Hell, there aren't even 10 altogether.

Corvette
Dodge Viper
Shelby Cobra
Cadillac XLR



Jack

J a c k wrote:
> jack wrote:
>
>> Top ten all american sports cars
>> http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/...orts-cars.html
>
>
>
> TOP ten? Hell, there aren't even 10 altogether.
>
> Corvette
> Dodge Viper
> Shelby Cobra
> Cadillac XLR
>
>


To be fair, the discussion at that site includes cars like the Mustang,
Challenger etc.

So, to put my 2¢ worth:

The Studebaker Avanti came before, (Introduced in May of 1962), all of
the so called "pony" cars and boasted significant features as full crash
padding throughout, a built in roll bar, front disc brakes and a
fiberglass body. Notable were the 29 world speed records set at the Utah
salt flats during the fall of 1963.

But probably the most significant feature was the car's lines, raked and
round designed by the famed Raymond Loewy, an influence that is seen in
all modern cars.

JT

(BTW, the term "Challenger" was stolen from Studebaker as were Daytona,
Land Cruiser, Commander and Champ)

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:47:55 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
<Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:

>But probably the most significant feature was the car's lines, raked and
>round designed by the famed Raymond Loewy, an influence that is seen in
>all modern cars.

He invented round? What a guy!

J.

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:


>>> Top ten all american sports cars
>>> http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/...orts-cars.html

> To be fair, the discussion at that site includes cars like the Mustang,
> Challenger etc.
>
> So, to put my 2¢ worth:
>
> The Studebaker Avanti came before, (Introduced in May of 1962), all of
> the so called "pony" cars and boasted significant features as full crash
> padding throughout, a built in roll bar, front disc brakes and a
> fiberglass body. Notable were the 29 world speed records set at the Utah
> salt flats during the fall of 1963.


There is no real "discussion" to be found at:
<http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html>
only an unattributed lifting, crudely done, from Forbes.com
<http://tinyurl.com/38otdp> by an apparently 30-yr old Indian female,
the totality of whose blog entries seems to consist of similar
cut-and-pastes of advertising copy from various product websites.
Neither does does her Blogspot-post list the ten cars Forbes has
chosen--four of which are not even available yet. At least two more of
those cars on the list will never be found anywhere near a local
dealership for all but a very few American buyers. Two of them are
differentiated only by their name-plates. So Forbes.com's "Top Ten"
undergo an instant melt-down out here where the rubber meets the road,
and shrinks to a paltry three, count 'em, THREE real-world vehicles
that you and I might someday see cruising down our street, or even own
and drive for ourselves.

If it isn't--or hasn't ever been--in the hands of American drivers,
calling it one of the Top Ten All-American Sports Cars is more than a
slight stretching of the reader's credulity--no matter how one defines
"Sports Car". Few of these ten have even begun to prove themselves to
the American market, let alone earned honors of any sort. Those from
the Forbes.com list which have reached the top echelon now number in
the extremely low single-digits (the Chevrolet Corvette--end of story).

Forbes.com might know a real sports car from a runway model, or a
stock prospectus, without somebody pointing it out to them, but they
sure don't know from common sense. I'd say that Sona, the Indian
blog-girl, exhibits exactly the sort of drooling wannabee customer
mind-set Forbes.com are looking for.


Cadillac XLR-V...$98,300
Corvette Conv....$53,415
Chevrolet Camaro (avail. 2009) no price
Dodge Challenger (avail. 2008) no Price
Dodge Viper SRT10 Conv (avail. Fall 2007)
Ford Shelby GT Conv. (avail Aug 2007) no price
Panoz Esperante Conv....$93,256
Pontiac Solstice GXP...$27,115
Saleen S7...$592,700 [you read it right--$600,000 plus, out the door]
Saturn Sky Red Line...$29,025

note: The Saturn and the Pontiac are virtually the same
car, with base equipment/price variations.


None of the old "pony cars" about which we reminisce were sports cars,
though they were certainly "sporty" compared to the stodgy
all-grown-up models of their day. Sure, I loved my '65 Mustang 2+2
fast-back coupe, but it wasn't a sports car fit for comparison to the
Corvette of 1965.

And yes, Grumpy, the Avanti was an interesting footnote in the
American market, and it did include some interesting safety
features--albeit at the cost of certain production economies--but an
American sports car must have done more than achieve some
straight-line speed records (after considerable tweaking by the
factory) at Bonneville more than four decades ago to be considered one
of the best, even when it is designed by Raymond Loewy.

Count years in production, SCCA class championships won, and number of
units put on the road, and there are not ten true All-American Sports
Cars to be found--even if you go back six decades and start counting
forward--let alone a "Top Ten" in the vein of the Forbes.com article
pasted so clumsily by Ms Sona. Why, even the Shelby Cobra had a
chassis which came from the British, as did the Cadillac-Allard of a
decade earlier.

At the very least, no matter what our own definitions require, we
should be able to agree that neither Forbes.com nor Ms Sona really
know nor care what a true All American Sports Car might be. And guys
like us could have a ball, more or less, with any one of even
Forbes.com's so-called contenders (except that Solstice/Sky
thing--it's too small for me).


Jack

On Aug 5, 2:59 am, J a c k <baron...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Cadillac XLR-V...$98,300
> Corvette Conv....$53,415
> Chevrolet Camaro (avail. 2009) no price
> Dodge Challenger (avail. 2008) no Price
> Dodge Viper SRT10 Conv (avail. Fall 2007)
> Ford Shelby GT Conv. (avail Aug 2007) no price
> Panoz Esperante Conv....$93,256
> Pontiac Solstice GXP...$27,115
> Saleen S7...$592,700 [you read it right--$600,000 plus, out the door]
> Saturn Sky Red Line...$29,025
>


I think the ford GT blows them all away as far as pure hard core
sportyness. .... But you don't see em on the street yet..
But when you do, but when you do... I bet many Vette
owners will be envious... :/ And the Corvette would probably
be my 2nd choice.. I like the 2 seat low slung look...
The Ford GT... Man, that should feel like driving a full blown
race car as far as feel and looks.. I think they be kool...
Too rich for my blood though... :/
Maybe one reason why I like the GT is I grew up admiring
the originals... I've got a video clip of a guy airing out an
original GT over in England. He has to weave through
some traffic, and does a pass.. Once clear of the traffic,
he romps on the throttle, and the highway lines start
to speed up like a video game...LOL.. And the sound...
Can't beat it with a stick, although I'm sure the new GT
will not be quite the same. But in some aspects it might
be better with the newer technology.
MK

J a c k wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
>>>> Top ten all american sports cars
>>>> http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/...orts-cars.html
>
>
>> To be fair, the discussion at that site includes cars like the
>> Mustang, Challenger etc.
>>
>> So, to put my 2¢ worth:
>>
>> The Studebaker Avanti came before, (Introduced in May of 1962), all of
>> the so called "pony" cars and boasted significant features as full
>> crash padding throughout, a built in roll bar, front disc brakes and a
>> fiberglass body. Notable were the 29 world speed records set at the
>> Utah salt flats during the fall of 1963.
>
>
>
> There is no real "discussion" to be found at:
> <http://mailone.blogspot.com/2007/08/ten-all-american-sports-cars.html>
> only an unattributed lifting, crudely done, from Forbes.com
> <http://tinyurl.com/38otdp> by an apparently 30-yr old Indian female,
> the totality of whose blog entries seems to consist of similar
> cut-and-pastes of advertising copy from various product websites.
> Neither does does her Blogspot-post list the ten cars Forbes has
> chosen--four of which are not even available yet. At least two more of
> those cars on the list will never be found anywhere near a local
> dealership for all but a very few American buyers. Two of them are
> differentiated only by their name-plates. So Forbes.com's "Top Ten"
> undergo an instant melt-down out here where the rubber meets the road,
> and shrinks to a paltry three, count 'em, THREE real-world vehicles that
> you and I might someday see cruising down our street, or even own and
> drive for ourselves.
>
> If it isn't--or hasn't ever been--in the hands of American drivers,
> calling it one of the Top Ten All-American Sports Cars is more than a
> slight stretching of the reader's credulity--no matter how one defines
> "Sports Car". Few of these ten have even begun to prove themselves to
> the American market, let alone earned honors of any sort. Those from the
> Forbes.com list which have reached the top echelon now number in the
> extremely low single-digits (the Chevrolet Corvette--end of story).
>
> Forbes.com might know a real sports car from a runway model, or a stock
> prospectus, without somebody pointing it out to them, but they sure
> don't know from common sense. I'd say that Sona, the Indian blog-girl,
> exhibits exactly the sort of drooling wannabee customer mind-set
> Forbes.com are looking for.
>
>
> Cadillac XLR-V...$98,300
> Corvette Conv....$53,415
> Chevrolet Camaro (avail. 2009) no price
> Dodge Challenger (avail. 2008) no Price
> Dodge Viper SRT10 Conv (avail. Fall 2007)
> Ford Shelby GT Conv. (avail Aug 2007) no price
> Panoz Esperante Conv....$93,256
> Pontiac Solstice GXP...$27,115
> Saleen S7...$592,700 [you read it right--$600,000 plus, out the door]
> Saturn Sky Red Line...$29,025
>
> note: The Saturn and the Pontiac are virtually the same
> car, with base equipment/price variations.
>
>
> None of the old "pony cars" about which we reminisce were sports cars,
> though they were certainly "sporty" compared to the stodgy all-grown-up
> models of their day. Sure, I loved my '65 Mustang 2+2 fast-back coupe,
> but it wasn't a sports car fit for comparison to the Corvette of 1965.
>
> And yes, Grumpy, the Avanti was an interesting footnote in the
> American market, and it did include some interesting safety
> features--albeit at the cost of certain production economies--but an
> American sports car must have done more than achieve some straight-line
> speed records (after considerable tweaking by the factory) at Bonneville
> more than four decades ago to be considered one of the best, even when
> it is designed by Raymond Loewy.
>
> Count years in production, SCCA class championships won, and number of
> units put on the road, and there are not ten true All-American Sports
> Cars to be found--even if you go back six decades and start counting
> forward--let alone a "Top Ten" in the vein of the Forbes.com article
> pasted so clumsily by Ms Sona. Why, even the Shelby Cobra had a chassis
> which came from the British, as did the Cadillac-Allard of a decade
> earlier.
>
> At the very least, no matter what our own definitions require, we should
> be able to agree that neither Forbes.com nor Ms Sona really know nor
> care what a true All American Sports Car might be. And guys like us
> could have a ball, more or less, with any one of even Forbes.com's
> so-called contenders (except that Solstice/Sky thing--it's too small for
> me).
>
>
> Jack



This is a discussion that probably no one can win. Your detailed reply
illustrates this very well.

I'll toss in a couple of examples where the "rules" were bent.

The SS United States won the Blue Ribband in the early 1950's for the
fastest time crossing the Atlantic (both ways) by a schduled ocean
liner. These records stood until a few years ago when several "new"
vessels made an eastbound crossing yet would never see trans Atlantic
service again took the prize. (Most are ferries working somewhere in
Europe).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Riband

But I agree, a true "sports" car would be a two seater and alas, the
Vette is the only viable American example... Not that it would be my
choice of daily transportation though!

JT

(Living in the past and lovin' it...)