Honda Car Forum

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:naj5j1l6uc6ovrdopud1dmklb7v7dagtb9@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:43:44 -0400, "remco"
> <whybcuzREMOVE@THISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Interesting perspective - well put.
> >
> >> >
> >> >We cut school programs like music, shop, arts, special science
> >programs --
> >> >all the stuff that teaches you more than just stupid facts.
> >>
> >> not sure i agree with you 100% here. It depends what you mean, really.
> >> General shop (or really design-technology) is good, anything specific
> >> in that isn't. What do you mean by special science programs? ones
> >> conecntrating on a specific area of a subject, or a good in depth look
> >> all over. The ability to drop subjects is one there should be, but it
> >> should only be doable once or twice, and then its not dropping, as
> >> switching. I for one dropped Music when i could, switching for
> >> Business Studies, and dropped Spanish for 3D art+design
> >>
> >
> >I think anything that helps the connecting of different synapses is a
plus:
> >We've all been in classes as kids where all we'd do is regurgitate facts.
> >You and I can tell anyone what the capitol of Juguslavia was without even
> >thinking -- and that's not an all bad thing as long as there are other
> >classes that allow one to open the mind a little. If one never learned to
be
> >interested in history/politial sciences/cultures, knowing the capitol of
> >Yuguslavia is hardly relevant (anymore).
>
> Alas, history, and political science seem to be two of the most
> piss-poorly taught subjects in the US. History is heavily biased
> towards the modern era, and filled with historical propeganda.

Thank you and totally agree with you. Notice how I said "learning to be
interested in..."? As with anything, someone has to learn to become
interested. Interest is cultivated and stimulated.
History is the lie most agree upon, but there's nothing wrong with
cultivating an interest in History. PoliSci is just an extention of that.

> BUT you will have to go and use an extra years worth of classes to
> make up for the maths and english classes you should have done at high
> school instead of the useless polsci.
>

Well, I assumed that the math and English classes are to be taken care of in
grade and high school. I know they are not, hence my original reply.
There's nothing wrong exposing kids to new things as long as they learn the
three Rs first. That must be my liberal agenda talking.

In this connected world, it is actually hard to 'wow' kids. Many scientists,
engineers, researchers, etc were stimilated in some way or fashion by 'soft'
or extra classes. Where are we getting our next generation from?

> >
> >Shop could be wood working, welding, car repair or metal working - where
one
> >learns how something works or learns to build something from design to
> >product. Science/Technology could be some sort of programming class or
some
> >sort of biology experiment.
>
> nope, car repair, welding, they're very specific skills. Thats not
> what high school is about. I can weld if i need to, but i don't,
> prefering to let others do it. Car repair varies so much from model to
> model, that only basic stuff is generally applicable. wood and metal
> work combined is good. Thats general. who here has never worked with
> wood and metal in their lives?following and making accurate diargams
> is also general knowledge worth having. Weldig and car repair, whislt
> something sot here will have done (well, those of us reading from
> alt.autos.honda) is not something for general use

How many people don't know how to change oil? Keep an eye on fluids? It is
not a bad idea to teach how to do that, IMO.

Regardless, my statement was just regarding a class that enables one to use
a different side of the brain besides math and languages. Working with your
hands in combination with anything technical teaches problem solving
skills - we need people with common sense (there's an oximoronic statement
if I ever heard one, huh

>
> Programming classes are similarly specialised. In short, think of how
> often you'll need to use things in your everyday life, not just your
> job. I haven't programmed anything more than markup language since i
> left university, and which language would you have them proram in?
> java, c++? delphi? LOGO? Biology experiments should, however, be part
> of the biology class curicculum, be it time-elapsed investigatiosn of
> amalyse via starch content measured by iodene, or disection of a
> bovine heart.
>

Again, see above. C++ or Java, I think. Programming is good because it
enforces trouble shooting skills but 3D design is cool too
It does not need to be programming, per se.

I went into science/technology because of being stimilated by loosely formed
school radio club..

Think "problem solving" all the while exposing these kids to something new
and keeping them interested. Nothing wrong with that.

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7GAYe.2263$Qq1.365267@newshog.newsread.com...
> communism.

Yeah, that's about as evil as top posting.

>
> "Steve" <lto@tin.inv> wrote in message
> news:vjg0j1lqug8up9p7olhotsgqrde56tm6s1@4ax.com...
> > My niece recently graduated from a prestigious university. Talked
> to
> > her the other day, she was complaining that her new Honda was
> getting
> > only 14 mpg. Turns out she was dividing the miles driven by the
> total
> > gas tank capacity, not the actual amount of gas it took to fill the
> > tank. Took several minutes of explanation before she realized her
> > error. Apparently she was following the instructions of a friend
> from
> > school. All that theoretical calculus sure came in handy. Where's
> > the Gas Mileage 101 course when you need it...
>
> but i bet she feels really good about herself.
>
>

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:naj5j1l6uc6ovrdopud1dmklb7v7dagtb9@4ax.com...

> Programming classes are similarly specialised. In short, think of how
> often you'll need to use things in your everyday life, not just your
> job. I haven't programmed anything more than markup language since i
> left university, and which language would you have them proram in?
> java, c++? delphi? LOGO? Biology experiments should, however, be part
> of the biology class curicculum, be it time-elapsed investigatiosn of
> amalyse via starch content measured by iodene, or disection of a
> bovine heart.
>
Although I agree with much of your post, I respectfully disagree with the
premise that programming is very language specific. I've only used a few
languages (the old DOS QuickBasic, Visual Basic, Visual C#, and Intel
assembly... I *hate* C and C++) but it's clear the focus of modern high
level languages is structure. Even the pre-.NET VB has strong structure
while being a snap to learn.

If you think about it, everything we plan is a program. Understanding how to
structure and modularize plans (including "exception handling" - dealing
with potential snags) is the key to carrying off any big project. Outlining
provides the same sort of benefit for small projects but doesn't have the
potential for minimizing interactions or handling vagaries of fate that
structured logic does.

I was in a class of about 20 at work, learning about setting up a monitoring
system for our trunking radios. The CPU card had to be programmed in ladder
logic, and the instructor asked how many of us had programming experience. I
was surprised to see every one of us did.

Mike

"flobert" wrote
>As it is, i'm working out some



> When i first moved to the US 2 1/2 years ago
>(whilst i painted
> and prepped our new house) i was tutoring her in the evenings (since i
> i'd done years earlier in the (getting dumbed down year-by-year)
>i've just given you all 3 sides, its more a ratios
> one i used
> i think.

> The US education system lacks far behind european nations. American
> educated students, have to take a 'year0' or foundation year at

> We had homecomming last friday.


> organisations

> i was about 14-15

> competance

> not sure i agree with you 100% here.

> i only guide a step or 2.
> it, i'll guide
> i'll write

>hapy with the grades my


> Guess thats where i'm lucky.


>US education system does need a severe
> kick up the arse though

Where did you get your education? I'm curious, because when speaking of
oneself, you capilize the letter "I".

Homecoming, is not spelled homecomming.

Organizations, is not spelled organisations.

Competence, is not spelled competance.

Happy, is not spelled hapy.

"Steve" <lto@tin.inv> wrote in message
news:vjg0j1lqug8up9p7olhotsgqrde56tm6s1@4ax.com...
> My niece recently graduated from a prestigious university. Talked to
> her the other day, she was complaining that her new Honda was getting
> only 14 mpg. Turns out she was dividing the miles driven by the total
> gas tank capacity, not the actual amount of gas it took to fill the
> tank. Took several minutes of explanation before she realized her
> error. Apparently she was following the instructions of a friend from
> school. All that theoretical calculus sure came in handy. Where's
> the Gas Mileage 101 course when you need it...

College? That calculation should be nailed long before college.

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:Zr2dnXg1cs5j1K7enZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@sedona.net...
> "flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
> news:naj5j1l6uc6ovrdopud1dmklb7v7dagtb9@4ax.com...
>
> > Programming classes are similarly specialised. In short, think of how
> > often you'll need to use things in your everyday life, not just your
> > job. I haven't programmed anything more than markup language since i
> > left university, and which language would you have them proram in?
> > java, c++? delphi? LOGO? Biology experiments should, however, be part
> > of the biology class curicculum, be it time-elapsed investigatiosn of
> > amalyse via starch content measured by iodene, or disection of a
> > bovine heart.
> >
> Although I agree with much of your post, I respectfully disagree with the
> premise that programming is very language specific. I've only used a few
> languages (the old DOS QuickBasic, Visual Basic, Visual C#, and Intel
> assembly... I *hate* C and C++) but it's clear the focus of modern high
> level languages is structure. Even the pre-.NET VB has strong structure
> while being a snap to learn.
>


Awww, don't be hating C/C++, Mike - they are like comfy slippers to me

After thinking about it some more, you're right: C# is best especially for
kids because it takes little effort to see major results.
Java is good that way too, but clearly C# is the way to go nowadays, with
the now prevalent .NET architecture.

I've been teaching my 15 year old son C++, but - after thinking about it
now - maybe we should switch...
Thanks for the thought.

> If you think about it, everything we plan is a program. Understanding how
to
> structure and modularize plans (including "exception handling" - dealing
> with potential snags) is the key to carrying off any big project.
Outlining
> provides the same sort of benefit for small projects but doesn't have the
> potential for minimizing interactions or handling vagaries of fate that
> structured logic does.
>

Yup, I think so too. There's no better teacher than getting utterly
frustrated at a problem, requiring some hair pulling. Besides teaching good
logic thinking skills, it also teaches tenacity.

"remco" <whybcuzREMOVE@THISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zyFYe.8155$i%2.2760@fe10.lga...
>
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7GAYe.2263$Qq1.365267@newshog.newsread.com...
> > communism.
>
> Yeah, that's about as evil as top posting.

i just wanted to separate the answer to the question from the remark
i made below.
>
> >
> > "Steve" <lto@tin.inv> wrote in message
> > news:vjg0j1lqug8up9p7olhotsgqrde56tm6s1@4ax.com...
> > > My niece recently graduated from a prestigious university.
Talked
> > to
> > > her the other day, she was complaining that her new Honda was
> > getting
> > > only 14 mpg. Turns out she was dividing the miles driven by the
> > total
> > > gas tank capacity, not the actual amount of gas it took to fill
the
> > > tank. Took several minutes of explanation before she realized
her
> > > error. Apparently she was following the instructions of a
friend
> > from
> > > school. All that theoretical calculus sure came in handy.
Where's
> > > the Gas Mileage 101 course when you need it...
> >
> > but i bet she feels really good about herself.
> >
> >
>
>

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:51:54 GMT, "Sean U. Cummings" <dotcom@dot.com>
wrote:

>
>"flobert" wrote
>>As it is, i'm working out some
>
>
>
>> When i first moved to the US 2 1/2 years ago
>>(whilst i painted
>> and prepped our new house) i was tutoring her in the evenings (since i
>> i'd done years earlier in the (getting dumbed down year-by-year)
>>i've just given you all 3 sides, its more a ratios
>> one i used
>> i think.
>
>> The US education system lacks far behind european nations. American
>> educated students, have to take a 'year0' or foundation year at
>
>> We had homecomming last friday.
>
>
>> organisations
>
>> i was about 14-15
>
>> competance
>
>> not sure i agree with you 100% here.
>
>> i only guide a step or 2.
>> it, i'll guide
>> i'll write
>
>>hapy with the grades my
>
>
>> Guess thats where i'm lucky.
>
>
>>US education system does need a severe
>> kick up the arse though
>
>Where did you get your education? I'm curious, because when speaking of
>oneself, you capilize the letter "I".

Lousy shift key - I catch as many as I can, but often when I get into
a 'flow' I lose track of if the shift worked or not.

>
>Homecoming, is not spelled homecomming.
>
>Organizations, is not spelled organisations.
>
>Competence, is not spelled competance.
>
>Happy, is not spelled hapy.

Hmm, one mis-spelling, one omitted letter, one accidentally doubled
letter, and one word that is actually selt CORRECTLY, according to the
proper english language (as in the ofifical English Language, you
know, spoken in England0 as opposed to the bastardised one written by
Webster, a drunken illiterate.I'm surprised you didn't try and tell me
i'd spelt words wrong by putting U's in, words like colour, or
neighbour. Despite what you may have been taught (and we're back to
the bias in subject teachings like history, and politics) American
English is the regional variant, not the standard. Of course, by the
same token, you spelt capitalise wrong. Oh yes, and its SPELT not
SPELLED, you're not giving me temporary relief on a job by taking my
place. What was that about education again? Thank you though for
emphasising that the American education ssytem needs a sever overhaul.
however, next time I'm uncertain as to if a key has registered (be it
the p or shift key or whatever) then you shall be sure I'll drop you
an email.

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1127379306.043481.275220@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

> >> They teach them that they should never judge another human, and that
> >> everything is relative.
> >
> > The traditionalists seem to do just as badly -- look at how literacy is
> > usually worst where belief in creationism and disblief in evolution are
> > highest.

> That is quite the generalization.

About every national poll asking about the subjects has shown this.

> I haven't put much stock in evolution as an explanation for
> "how we got here" since my period of paleontological reading
> around 1970; the shortfalls aren't apparent until you examine
> the time line and estimate the number of generations for
> various changes.

What kind of scientist are you?

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LkKYe.1637$wR4.307736@monger.newsread.com...
>
> "remco" <whybcuzREMOVE@THISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:zyFYe.8155$i%2.2760@fe10.lga...
> >
> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:7GAYe.2263$Qq1.365267@newshog.newsread.com...
> > > communism.
> >
> > Yeah, that's about as evil as top posting.
>
> i just wanted to separate the answer to the question from the remark
> i made below.

I was just kidding.