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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 09:11 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Brake servicing FAQ page update...

I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
it.

I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
corrosion and seizure of various parts.

Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
machine the rotors.

Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few
years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's
brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and
have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me.
Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.

Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my
annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding,
greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors
had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my
surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and
absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on
the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been
most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes
showed the same symptoms.

It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain
very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep.
This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into
the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.

I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$)
The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between
them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used
a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.

In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back
here.

If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor
glaze, please let me know.

This page has been updated to reflect my new findings.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 09:22 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...

Tegger wrote:
> I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
> it.
>
> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>
> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
> machine the rotors.
>
> Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few
> years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's
> brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and
> have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me.
> Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
>
> Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my
> annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding,
> greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors
> had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my
> surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and
> absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on
> the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been
> most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes
> showed the same symptoms.
>
> It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain
> very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep.
> This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into
> the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
>
> I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$)
> The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between
> them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used
> a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
>
> In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back
> here.
>
> If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor
> glaze, please let me know.
>
> This page has been updated to reflect my new findings.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html
>

two comments!

1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder!
2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high
temperature resistance about it.

if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
find an economic source of it, let me know!
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 10:23 am
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...

jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:e-GdnU-K2fk8mNbbnZ2dnUVZ_tmknZ2d@speakeasy.net:


>>

> two comments!
>
> 1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder!




I have, actually. Patchy glaze will cause judder just like warped
rotors!



> 2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high
> temperature resistance about it.




I was VERY sparing with the silicone. If it creeps, I'll know.

Sil-Glyde does not creep or melt at 150F, though, so I might get lucky
here.


>
> if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
> find an economic source of it, let me know!
>



I see what you mean.

I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest container
Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.

My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They get
their M77 directly from Honda.

OUCH OUCH OUCH!



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 05:12 pm
Brian Smith
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...


"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns99325D90BC51tegger@207.14.116.130...
>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
> it.
>
> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>
> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
> machine the rotors.


Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while appyling the
brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or
rotors. Don't do it for an extended amount of time, just apply the brakes
(lightly) for short periods of time or else you will overheat the
components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning the
rotors and replacing the pads.




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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 06:29 pm
motsco_
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...

Brian Smith wrote:
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns99325D90BC51tegger@207.14.116.130...
>> I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
>> it.
>>
>> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
>> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
>> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>>
>> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
>> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
>> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
>> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
>> machine the rotors.

>
> Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while appyling the
> brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or
> rotors. Don't do it for an extended amount of time, just apply the brakes
> (lightly) for short periods of time or else you will overheat the
> components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning the
> rotors and replacing the pads.


------------------------------

I gotta wonder about people who drive a lot in mountainous areas. I'll
bet the guys at the brake shops see all kinds of 'symptoms' ! !

'Curly'
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 08:23 pm
Brian Smith
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...


"motsco_" <motsco_@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:134n17gs8ndmh3b@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I gotta wonder about people who drive a lot in mountainous areas. I'll bet
> the guys at the brake shops see all kinds of 'symptoms' ! !


I run a fleet of refuse and recycling trucks that are in the urban area,
except for once or twice a day for a run of 10 kilometres round trip. They
do nothing but stop and go forty to fifty feet all day long. The brake
rotors/ drums and pads/shoes become glazed within a week or two, it's far
more affordable and no down time occurs when using the method I described
earlier.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 08:53 pm
Skate
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...

On Wed, 16 May 2007 06:22:40 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

>Tegger wrote:
>> I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
>> it.
>>
>> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
>> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
>> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>>
>> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
>> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
>> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
>> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
>> machine the rotors.
>>
>> Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few
>> years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's
>> brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and
>> have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me.
>> Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
>>
>> Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my
>> annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding,
>> greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors
>> had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my
>> surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and
>> absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on
>> the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been
>> most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes
>> showed the same symptoms.
>>
>> It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain
>> very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep.
>> This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into
>> the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
>>
>> I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$)
>> The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between
>> them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used
>> a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
>>
>> In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back
>> here.
>>
>> If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor
>> glaze, please let me know.
>>
>> This page has been updated to reflect my new findings.
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html
>>

>two comments!
>
>1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder!
>2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high
>temperature resistance about it.
>
>if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
>find an economic source of it, let me know!


When using Honda OEM pads they come with a small packet of molykote
m77.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 11:09 pm
Hachiroku ハチロク
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...

On Wed, 16 May 2007 21:12:24 +0000, Brian Smith wrote:

>
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns99325D90BC51tegger@207.14.116.130...
>>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read
>> it.
>>
>> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti-
>> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent
>> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>>
>> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I
>> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a
>> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve.
>> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to
>> machine the rotors.

>
> Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while appyling
> the
> brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or
> rotors. Don't do it for an extended amount of time, just apply the brakes
> (lightly) for short periods of time or else you will overheat the
> components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning
> the rotors and replacing the pads.



Nah,I come up to stop signs at high speeds and then slam on the brakes.
This keeps them from glazing, too...

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 16 May 2007, 11:14 pm
Hachiroku ハチロク
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...

On Wed, 16 May 2007 14:23:41 +0000, Tegger wrote:

>
>> if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
>> find an economic source of it, let me know!
>>
>>

>
> I see what you mean.
>
> I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest container
> Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.
>
> My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They get
> their M77 directly from Honda.



http://www.usededmonton.com/classifi...neous-for-sale


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 17 May 2007, 06:33 am
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake servicing FAQ page update...

Skate <skat3e123NOSPAM@yahoo.net> wrote in
news:to8n43hv8ejuf2j8mdg4mgms31j9fgujek@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 16 May 2007 06:22:40 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>

it.
>>
>>if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you
>>find an economic source of it, let me know!

>
> When using Honda OEM pads they come with a small packet of molykote
> m77.
>



Not all of them. Mine do not.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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