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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 05:34 pm
write2here@hotmail.com
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Default shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

Hello All,

Tried looking to see if this question was every asked before but
couldn't find an answer, so I'll ask it now.

A friend of mine (and self-proclaimed manual-speed know it all)
constantly criticizes my shifting habits telling me I'm killing my
transmission...which I find dubious since my old car (94 Probe GT) is
still on original clutch with over 160K and never had a speck of
transmission problems throughout its still-continuing life.

Have an '06 Type S with approx. 25K on it. Love it...and so much so, I
try not to "beat on" the engine (wish I had another Type S so I could
really put it through its paces). To do this I don't push the engine
all that much when I shift, and therefore often skip gears proceeding
through to 6th. Sometimes I'll shift 1 to 3 to 5 to 6. Other times
from a stop sign (if slightly rolling through it...shhh, don't tell
any one) I'll go 2 to 4 to 6 sometimes. I'll occasionally downshift to
slow car down (mixed with braking), and usually coast into turns
adjusting shift afterwards for putting less torque-stress on the
engine as well.

In general I'll also try and always cruise in 6th even at 30 to 35
mph...as long there's nowhere near the too -low-rpm -sputtering that
would make the engine die. Rarely do my RPM ever exceed 5000!
Occasionaly but not all that much.

According to my friend, I'm ruining the transmission by not following
the when-to-shift speeds according to the manual. I'm having a hard
time agreeing with him.

Is he correct? Or are my conservative shifting habits guaranteeing my
beloved Type-S's transmission a slow death?

Appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Bob

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 07:01 pm
Neal Hudson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all those
gears.

<write2here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178663696.155572.256540@u30g2000hsc.googlegr oups.com...
> Hello All,
>
> Tried looking to see if this question was every asked before but
> couldn't find an answer, so I'll ask it now.
>
> A friend of mine (and self-proclaimed manual-speed know it all)
> constantly criticizes my shifting habits telling me I'm killing my
> transmission...which I find dubious since my old car (94 Probe GT) is
> still on original clutch with over 160K and never had a speck of
> transmission problems throughout its still-continuing life.
>
> Have an '06 Type S with approx. 25K on it. Love it...and so much so, I
> try not to "beat on" the engine (wish I had another Type S so I could
> really put it through its paces). To do this I don't push the engine
> all that much when I shift, and therefore often skip gears proceeding
> through to 6th. Sometimes I'll shift 1 to 3 to 5 to 6. Other times
> from a stop sign (if slightly rolling through it...shhh, don't tell
> any one) I'll go 2 to 4 to 6 sometimes. I'll occasionally downshift to
> slow car down (mixed with braking), and usually coast into turns
> adjusting shift afterwards for putting less torque-stress on the
> engine as well.
>
> In general I'll also try and always cruise in 6th even at 30 to 35
> mph...as long there's nowhere near the too -low-rpm -sputtering that
> would make the engine die. Rarely do my RPM ever exceed 5000!
> Occasionaly but not all that much.
>
> According to my friend, I'm ruining the transmission by not following
> the when-to-shift speeds according to the manual. I'm having a hard
> time agreeing with him.
>
> Is he correct? Or are my conservative shifting habits guaranteeing my
> beloved Type-S's transmission a slow death?
>
> Appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
>
> Bob
>



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 07:49 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

write2here@hotmail.com wrote in news:1178663696.155572.256540
@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> Hello All,
>
> Tried looking to see if this question was every asked before but
> couldn't find an answer, so I'll ask it now.
>
> A friend of mine (and self-proclaimed manual-speed know it all)
> constantly criticizes my shifting habits telling me I'm killing my
> transmission...which I find dubious since my old car (94 Probe GT) is
> still on original clutch with over 160K and never had a speck of
> transmission problems throughout its still-continuing life.



Cool. But 160K isn't very much these days, and how do you know there's
no damage? Can you tell what bearing noise sounds like?


>
> Have an '06 Type S with approx. 25K on it. Love it...and so much so, I
> try not to "beat on" the engine (wish I had another Type S so I could
> really put it through its paces). To do this I don't push the engine
> all that much when I shift, and therefore often skip gears proceeding
> through to 6th. Sometimes I'll shift 1 to 3 to 5 to 6.




Bad. This tears up the synchros. Go through the gears properly. If you
don't like shifting, you should have bought an automatic.



> Other times
> from a stop sign (if slightly rolling through it...shhh, don't tell
> any one) I'll go 2 to 4 to 6 sometimes. I'll occasionally downshift to
> slow car down (mixed with braking),




Proper "downshifting" does not involve the brakes, and does not cause
any sort of jerks or bumps as you let the clutch out.


> and usually coast into turns
> adjusting shift afterwards for putting less torque-stress on the
> engine as well.



But adding side-load on the tranny bearings, plus hammering the engine
crank and connecting rod bearings.

Why did you buy a manual again?


>
> In general I'll also try and always cruise in 6th even at 30 to 35
> mph...as long there's nowhere near the too -low-rpm -sputtering that
> would make the engine die.




Not good. This is called "lugging". Major long-term engine bearing
damage. Why did you buy a manual in the first place?



> Rarely do my RPM ever exceed 5000!
> Occasionaly but not all that much.



It ought to, at least once in a while. If you putter around like an old
man all the time, soft carbon deposits can accumulate, holding valves
open, causing driveability problems and valve burning. And that's quite
expensive.


>
> According to my friend, I'm ruining the transmission by not following
> the when-to-shift speeds according to the manual. I'm having a hard
> time agreeing with him.



*He* isn't right, *HONDA* is right.

Do you think Honda put those specifications in the manual for fun? Or
just for something to fill up pages with?


>
> Is he correct? Or are my conservative shifting habits guaranteeing my
> beloved Type-S's transmission a slow death?



Yep. You want 300K out of your tranny? Observe the manual's directives.
And change the tranny oil every 30K miles, with Honda MTF.

Manual transmissions are for people who like shifting and exploring the
interaction of man and machine. If you want the shifter to be as
unobtrusive as possible, you should have got an automatic.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 07:50 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

"Neal Hudson" <nealwh@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net :

> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
> those gears.




Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2007, 10:08 pm
Jim Yanik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns992AD3C3DC4CDtegger@207.14.116.130:

> "Neal Hudson" <nealwh@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net :
>
>> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
>> those gears.

>
>
>
> Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.
>
>
>


Skipping gears does wear the synchros more.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09 May 2007, 06:02 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in news:Xns992AEB839FA9jyanikkuanet@
64.209.0.84:

> Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns992AD3C3DC4CDtegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> "Neal Hudson" <nealwh@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>> news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net :
>>
>>> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
>>> those gears.

>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.
>>
>>
>>

>
> Skipping gears does wear the synchros more.
>



Sure does. Even Honda said so in a recent issue of Honda Service News.

Earlier I meant to say that the number of gears has to do with power and
acceleration, not tranny life.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09 May 2007, 02:55 pm
ACAR
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

On May 9, 7:02 am, Tegger <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in news:Xns992AEB839FA9jyanikkuanet@
> 64.209.0.84:
>
>
>
> > Tegger <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> >news:Xns992AD3C3DC4CDtegger@207.14.116.130:

>
> >> "Neal Hudson" <nea...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> >>news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.n et:

>
> >>> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
> >>> those gears.

>
> >> Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.

>
> > Skipping gears does wear the synchros more.

>
> Sure does. Even Honda said so in a recent issue of Honda Service News.
>
> Earlier I meant to say that the number of gears has to do with power and
> acceleration, not tranny life.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/



Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
under slow acceleration situations.

Skipping gears when accelerating slowly and done smoothly can't be
that harmful. Just about everyone I know who has a 5 or 6 speed skips
gears on a routine basis.

If you pay attention to your car, it generally lets you know when you
are doing something it doesn't like. If the shift quality while
skipping gears is worse than when not skipping gears, stop skipping
gears.

On the other hand, what's the point of buying a Type S is you're
afraid to run up the RPM? I could purchase a device to defeat that 1st
to 4th shift feature but it never interferes with the way I drive my
'Vette, if you get my drift. So long as the engine is well maintained
(esp. clean oil) running it up to red line (once it's fully warmed up)
is not going to hurt the engine one little bit. You will find the
shift quality gets better as you let that engine breathe. Replace
those crappy OEM tires and stand on it!

Or trade it in for a Prius. No worries about skipping gears.





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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09 May 2007, 04:44 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1178740512.816592.228130@y5g2000hsa.googlegro ups.com:


>
>
> Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
> standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
> under slow acceleration situations.




Have you considered that GM might have explicitly designed the
transmission to survive that? Honda did not.


>
> Skipping gears when accelerating slowly and done smoothly can't be
> that harmful.
> Just about everyone I know who has a 5 or 6 speed skips
> gears on a routine basis.




The Honda Service News issue I mentioned warns mechanics to check for
skip-shifting if a car comes in with shifting problems.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09 May 2007, 05:48 pm
Dean Dark
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

On Wed, 9 May 2007 21:44:39 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in
>news:1178740512.816592.228130@y5g2000hsa.googlegr oups.com:
>
>> Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
>> standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
>> under slow acceleration situations.

>
>Have you considered that GM might have explicitly designed the
>transmission to survive that? Honda did not.


I believe that the GM forced shift of which you speak is done only
when the engine is below operating temperature, and is a trick to get
it past emissions regulations under such conditions.

Whether or not the transmission is designed to handle it is kind of
moot. IMHFO anyone who 'gets on' an engine and transmission before
its oil is up to operating temperature deserves all he/she gets.
--
Dan.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09 May 2007, 06:36 pm
write2here@hotmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

On May 9, 6:02 am, Tegger <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in news:Xns992AEB839FA9jyanikkuanet@
> 64.209.0.84:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tegger <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> >news:Xns992AD3C3DC4CDtegger@207.14.116.130:

>
> >> "Neal Hudson" <nea...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> >>news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.n et:

>
> >>> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
> >>> those gears.

>
> >> Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.

>
> > Skipping gears does wear the synchros more.

>
> Sure does. Even Honda said so in a recent issue of Honda Service News.
>
> Earlier I meant to say that the number of gears has to do with power and
> acceleration, not tranny life.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


All these points from all responses are well taken...thanks.

Think I'm going to start drive my Type S more aggressively and more to
the manual's speed specifications for when to shift. Love driving hard
and fast...but also love having a car for a very long life. Where I
live (northern Midwest region) lots of roads are in pretty crappy
condition; pot holes, cracks, bad repairs...the works. So fast driving
has the backlash of tires, shocks and alignment abuse. Why did I buy a
manual? Really like the experience of shifting. As I'm sure you know,
keeps you more involved in the ride. Besides...for me, automatics are
boring.

About the awareness of knowing what one's engine doesn't like? Have
always liked to think I had a good sense of that. In my RSX, I rarely
ever (may just once or twice) have experienced any even slight lugging
when letting clutch out in lower gears as I shift to higher ones. Have
never noticed any lack of "shift quality" when gear skipping either.
Overwhelming majority of them are smooth and precise with no excess
revs higher or lower as clutch lets out completely...which is why I've
never thought I've been doing damage to synchros.

But like it's been pointed out, Honda knows best. Who am I to argue?
Again, thanks for the input.

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