Honda Car Forum

I've noticed some behaviour that has developed lately in my 92 Integra.
On occasion, on a cold start - immediately shifting into reverse causes
resistance and the clutch will grind forcing me out of the gear. The
remedy for this I figured out, which works every time, is to shift into
first and without letting off the clutch - immediately shift it into
reverse. Could anyone shed some insight on this? Thanks.

"haphzrd" <h@phzrd.invalid> wrote in message
news:f8xOg.20859$9u.232206@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> I've noticed some behaviour that has developed lately in my 92 Integra.
> On occasion, on a cold start - immediately shifting into reverse causes
> resistance and the clutch will grind forcing me out of the gear. The
> remedy for this I figured out, which works every time, is to shift into
> first and without letting off the clutch - immediately shift it into
> reverse. Could anyone shed some insight on this? Thanks.

First gear is synchronized while reverse is not, otherwise they are pretty
much the same. When you hit first the synchros stop the gears and allow you
to shift into reverse easily.

This is a good time to change the manual transmission lube if it hasn't been
done recently. Genuine Honda MTL is always good, but IIRC somebody here (or
maybe in alt.autos.honda) has had good results with a substitute (Redline?).

Mike

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:43:50 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> First gear is synchronized while reverse is not, otherwise they are pretty
> much the same. When you hit first the synchros stop the gears and allow you
> to shift into reverse easily.

I see... would having to do this be the sign of an issue down the road?

> This is a good time to change the manual transmission lube if it hasn't been
> done recently. Genuine Honda MTL is always good, but IIRC somebody here (or
> maybe in alt.autos.honda) has had good results with a substitute (Redline?).
>
> Mike

I'll have to change the fluid. Would this behaviour be caused by old fluid?
Thanks for the info.

"haphzrd" <h@phzrd.invalid> wrote in news:f8xOg.20859$9u.232206@ursa-
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

> I've noticed some behaviour that has developed lately in my 92 Integra.
> On occasion, on a cold start - immediately shifting into reverse causes
> resistance and the clutch will grind forcing me out of the gear. The
> remedy for this I figured out, which works every time, is to shift into
> first and without letting off the clutch - immediately shift it into
> reverse. Could anyone shed some insight on this? Thanks.



How much freeplay is there at the pedal?


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"haphzrd" <h@phzrd.invalid> wrote in message
news:T%zOg.20909$9u.233449@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:43:50 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>> First gear is synchronized while reverse is not, otherwise they are
>> pretty
>> much the same. When you hit first the synchros stop the gears and allow
>> you
>> to shift into reverse easily.
>
> I see... would having to do this be the sign of an issue down the road?
>
It tends to get a little worse with age, but not radically so.

>> This is a good time to change the manual transmission lube if it hasn't
>> been
>> done recently. Genuine Honda MTL is always good, but IIRC somebody here
>> (or
>> maybe in alt.autos.honda) has had good results with a substitute
>> (Redline?).
>>
>> Mike
>
> I'll have to change the fluid. Would this behaviour be caused by old
> fluid?
> Thanks for the info.

More often low fluid than old fluid. If the level drops there is less
resistance to slow the gears down. I recommend changing the fluid because
age does make a difference in how well the synchros work (older fluid makes
shifting more "balky") and replacing it ensures it is filled properly.

Check out "Whitey's" thread, "Transmission fluid for '05 TL with 6 speed
manual" for more on the fluid.

Mike

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:32:01 +0000, TeGGeR® wrote:

> How much freeplay is there at the pedal?

Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is freeplay? Is this the amount of
pedal I have before my clutch is fully disengaged?

"haphzrd" <h@phzrd.invalid> wrote in news:B3IOg.21120$9u.237723@ursa-
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

> On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:32:01 +0000, TeGGeR® wrote:
>
>> How much freeplay is there at the pedal?
>
> Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is freeplay? Is this the amount of
> pedal I have before my clutch is fully disengaged?
>



Freeplay is the very light bit of slack at the top of the pedal's travel.
If you push on the pedal with your fingertips, it will go down a bit very
easily, then hit something much harder. You should have about an inch of
that slack.

If you have LOTS more than that, this can lead to grinding. If you have NO
play, it's time for an adjustment, but in that case your grinding is caused
by two things:
1) Not waiting long enough for the countershaft to stop spinning, or
2) Low fluid level.

How long have you owned this car?

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 02:19:19 +0000, TeGGeR® wrote:

> Freeplay is the very light bit of slack at the top of the pedal's travel.
> If you push on the pedal with your fingertips, it will go down a bit very
> easily, then hit something much harder. You should have about an inch of
> that slack.

I just checked the freeplay and I do have about an inch of slack until I
hit resistance.

> If you have LOTS more than that, this can lead to grinding. If you have NO
> play, it's time for an adjustment, but in that case your grinding is caused
> by two things:
> 1) Not waiting long enough for the countershaft to stop spinning, or
> 2) Low fluid level.

Is the countershaft supposed to stop spinning on its own? Other than when
I place it into a gear and force it to a stop? ...and is this time affected
by low/bad fluid?

As for fluid level, is this fairly easy for a novice to check and refill?
According to the pdf manual on my car, I'll have to remove the oil filler
plug and check and see if the fluid is level with the opening. Is new fluid
then replaced via this same hole? Any pointers / suggestions / tips would
be very appreciated.

> How long have you owned this car?

6 months.

Lots of question I know...thanks!

Michael Pardee wrote:
> First gear is synchronized while reverse is not

Exactly. One thing that took me a long time to learn is that even when
the shifter is in neutral, if the clutch is up, then the gears are
spinning. So that's why it sometimes does not shift smoothly into
reverse. There's a few different ways that you can shift into reverse
without grinding the gears guaranteed.

1. Like you already figured out, shift into any forward gear to use the
synchros to stop the gears. Then shift into reverse. You don't have to
do this quickly. As long as you keep the clutch down (disengaged from
engine), the gears will not spin again.

2. You could shift into reverse before starting the engine. This would
be appropriate if you plan on pulling out soon after starting the
engine.

3. Instead of using synchros to stop the gears, you can just hold down
the clutch for a while and let the gears slow down on their own. Then
shift into reverse (without lifting up the clutch until after shifting).

"haphzrd" <h@phzrd.invalid> wrote in
news:i2KOg.21169$9u.239957@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

> On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 02:19:19 +0000, TeGGeR® wrote:
>
>> Freeplay is the very light bit of slack at the top of the pedal's
>> travel. If you push on the pedal with your fingertips, it will go
>> down a bit very easily, then hit something much harder. You should
>> have about an inch of that slack.
>
> I just checked the freeplay and I do have about an inch of slack until
> I hit resistance.



Good...


>
>> If you have LOTS more than that, this can lead to grinding. If you
>> have NO play, it's time for an adjustment, but in that case your
>> grinding is caused by two things:
>> 1) Not waiting long enough for the countershaft to stop spinning, or
>> 2) Low fluid level.
>
> Is the countershaft supposed to stop spinning on its own? Other than
> when I place it into a gear and force it to a stop? ...and is this
> time affected by low/bad fluid?



The countershaft has mass, and therefore takes time to slow down and
stop once the clutch is pressed. Low fluid exerts less drag on the
gears, so the countershaft will keep spinning for longer, but it will
still eventually stop.

If you let out the clutch in neutral, then push the clutch again and
count three seconds, you should then be able to put it in reverse
without grinding.

If you count three seconds and it still grinds, let the clutch out, push
it back in and wait *ten* seconds. Still grinding? Try thirty seconds.
Still grinding?

What I ask here is very important. Please check and report back.



>
> As for fluid level, is this fairly easy for a novice to check and
> refill? According to the pdf manual on my car, I'll have to remove the
> oil filler plug and check and see if the fluid is level with the
> opening. Is new fluid then replaced via this same hole? Any pointers /
> suggestions / tips would be very appreciated.



The tranny has two plugs. One is a fill and one is a drain. The fill
plug is also used to check the level. You raise the car and place it on
stands (or on ramps), then level the car by raising the rear end as
well. Remove the fill plug and stick your finger in the hole. The fluid
level should be right up to the bottom of the hole. If it's not, it's
low.

The fluid should be changed every 30K miles. Failure to do this is one
of the causes of premature tranny failure.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/