Honda Car Forum

Has anyone who owns a first generation Acura TL experienced starter
problems?

I purchased mine ('98) used in late December and it only has 54,000 miles on
it, but the last few weeks, I've noticed the starter hesitates occasionally.
Had a mechanic check it out and he said it is drawing too many amps -
sometimes - not consistently (from 8-10).
Could this be weather related and should I be concerned since the problem
isn't chronic.

Thanks,
Sue

"SavvySurfer" <suelandis@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:213f3$42efb221$a2273a76$17783@ALLTEL.NET...
> Has anyone who owns a first generation Acura TL experienced starter
> problems?
>
> I purchased mine ('98) used in late December and it only has 54,000 miles
on
> it, but the last few weeks, I've noticed the starter hesitates
occasionally.
> Had a mechanic check it out and he said it is drawing too many amps -
> sometimes - not consistently (from 8-10).
> Could this be weather related and should I be concerned since the problem
> isn't chronic.
>
> Thanks,
> Sue

Does it just start turning slowly? Any clicking sounds without actually
turning the car over?

It might be a bad contact on the wire going from the starter to the battery.
Mechanics will immediately want to replace the starter to fix your problem.
Quite often the starter they removed is still good. While replacing the
starter, they also clean the wires -- often cleaning (using some 220
sandpaper) the wires fixed the problem. They don't care, because you are
paying for the starter anyway and you're happy because the car is running
again.

If you are comfortable with tools or know someone that is, I'd clean both
ends of the cable (battery and starter) and see if it goes away. This could
very well fix your problem.

If it persists, it could leave you stranded one day (most likely when it is
colder outside). If so, it might be a good idea to replace the starter
before that happens.

Remco

"SavvySurfer" <suelandis@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:213f3$42efb221$a2273a76$17783@ALLTEL.NET...
> Has anyone who owns a first generation Acura TL experienced starter
> problems?
>
> I purchased mine ('98) used in late December and it only has 54,000 miles
> on
> it, but the last few weeks, I've noticed the starter hesitates
> occasionally.
> Had a mechanic check it out and he said it is drawing too many amps -
> sometimes - not consistently (from 8-10).
> Could this be weather related and should I be concerned since the problem
> isn't chronic.
>
> Thanks,
> Sue
>
>
As Remco says, it could be something other than the starter. In fact, the
high current drain points to almost anything except the starter. Starter
problems more often show up as low current drain.

If the wiring has a high resistance connection or the battery is weak, the
starter will turn slowly or not at all. In either case, the starter will
draw more current than it will if the cranking speed is normal. If the
wiring cleanup Remco recommends doesn't do the job, the battery falls under
suspicion next - although the intermittent nature sounds more like the
wiring. The starter is about last on my list of suspects.

Mike

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:lqidnYTfaqRwqm3fRVn-2w@sedona.net:

> "SavvySurfer" <suelandis@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:213f3$42efb221$a2273a76$17783@ALLTEL.NET...
>> Has anyone who owns a first generation Acura TL experienced starter
>> problems?
>>
>> I purchased mine ('98) used in late December and it only has 54,000
>> miles on
>> it, but the last few weeks, I've noticed the starter hesitates
>> occasionally.
>> Had a mechanic check it out and he said it is drawing too many amps -
>> sometimes - not consistently (from 8-10).
>> Could this be weather related and should I be concerned since the
>> problem isn't chronic.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sue
>>
>>
> As Remco says, it could be something other than the starter. In fact,
> the high current drain points to almost anything except the starter.
> Starter problems more often show up as low current drain.
>
> If the wiring has a high resistance connection or the battery is weak,
> the starter will turn slowly or not at all. In either case, the
> starter will draw more current than it will if the cranking speed is
> normal. If the wiring cleanup Remco recommends doesn't do the job, the
> battery falls under suspicion next - although the intermittent nature
> sounds more like the wiring. The starter is about last on my list of
> suspects.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

High resistance would mean LESS current drawn;Basic Ohms Law.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On 3 Aug 2005 15:31:14 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote:

>"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
>news:lqidnYTfaqRwqm3fRVn-2w@sedona.net:
>
>> "SavvySurfer" <suelandis@alltel.net> wrote in message
>> news:213f3$42efb221$a2273a76$17783@ALLTEL.NET...
>>> Has anyone who owns a first generation Acura TL experienced starter
>>> problems?
>>>
>>> I purchased mine ('98) used in late December and it only has 54,000
>>> miles on
>>> it, but the last few weeks, I've noticed the starter hesitates
>>> occasionally.
>>> Had a mechanic check it out and he said it is drawing too many amps -
>>> sometimes - not consistently (from 8-10).
Did he actually measure the starter's current ?

>>> Could this be weather related and should I be concerned since the
>>> problem isn't chronic.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sue
>>>
>>>
>> As Remco says, it could be something other than the starter. In fact,
>> the high current drain points to almost anything except the starter.
>> Starter problems more often show up as low current drain.
>>
>> If the wiring has a high resistance connection or the battery is weak,
>> the starter will turn slowly or not at all. In either case, the
>> starter will draw more current than it will if the cranking speed is
>> normal. If the wiring cleanup Remco recommends doesn't do the job, the
>> battery falls under suspicion next - although the intermittent nature
>> sounds more like the wiring. The starter is about last on my list of
>> suspects.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
>High resistance would mean LESS current drawn;Basic Ohms Law.

One doesn't usually measure the starter's current. It's more than 200
Amps.

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96A774F271E4Cjyanikkuanet@129.250.170.84.. .
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:lqidnYTfaqRwqm3fRVn-2w@sedona.net:
>
>> "SavvySurfer" <suelandis@alltel.net> wrote in message
>> news:213f3$42efb221$a2273a76$17783@ALLTEL.NET...
>>> Has anyone who owns a first generation Acura TL experienced starter
>>> problems?
>>>
>>> I purchased mine ('98) used in late December and it only has 54,000
>>> miles on
>>> it, but the last few weeks, I've noticed the starter hesitates
>>> occasionally.
>>> Had a mechanic check it out and he said it is drawing too many amps -
>>> sometimes - not consistently (from 8-10).
>>> Could this be weather related and should I be concerned since the
>>> problem isn't chronic.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sue
>>>
>>>
>> As Remco says, it could be something other than the starter. In fact,
>> the high current drain points to almost anything except the starter.
>> Starter problems more often show up as low current drain.
>>
>> If the wiring has a high resistance connection or the battery is weak,
>> the starter will turn slowly or not at all. In either case, the
>> starter will draw more current than it will if the cranking speed is
>> normal. If the wiring cleanup Remco recommends doesn't do the job, the
>> battery falls under suspicion next - although the intermittent nature
>> sounds more like the wiring. The starter is about last on my list of
>> suspects.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
> High resistance would mean LESS current drawn;Basic Ohms Law.
>
> --
Motors don't normally react that way, either AC induction or DC.

DC motors, like the starter, control their current draw by back-EMF created
by rotation. A freely spinning starter (not engaging the engine, like a
bench test) draws very little current - as little as ten amps. As the load
increases and the motor turns more slowly, the current rises rapidly. The
highest current is measured at stall, when the motor becomes a resistor
created by the windings of the motor. At that point it obeys ohm's law and
dissipates every watt pumped into it. If the voltage to the starter is not
enough to crank the engine, the starter will draw stall current.

AC motors do a similar thing where the phase lag through the motor increases
as the motor becomes overloaded for the available voltage. The current
rises, but since the "slip angle" is increasing the curent does little more
than heat the motor. Air conditioners are frequent victims of that sort of
failure when a phase of the electric distribution fails or during brownouts.

Mike

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:CNCdnSLYw9mJfm_fRVn-jQ@sedona.net...
> DC motors, like the starter, control their current draw by back-EMF
> created by rotation. A freely spinning starter (not engaging the engine,
> like a bench test) draws very little current - as little as ten amps. As
> the load increases and the motor turns more slowly, the current rises
> rapidly. The highest current is measured at stall, when the motor becomes
> a resistor created by the windings of the motor. At that point it obeys
> ohm's law and dissipates every watt pumped into it. If the voltage to the
> starter is not enough to crank the engine, the starter will draw stall
> current.
>
Breaking netiquette by responding to my own post....

I should have clarified - that only applies to motors with a load that does
not increase with increased speed. A fan motor, for example, will draw less
current at lower voltages because the fan has much more drag at higher
speeds. A window motor, starter motor, injector fuel pump or seat adjustment
motor will draw *more* current at lower voltages because the rotation speed
is reduced - the same as if the mechanical load were increased.

None of those examples - even the fan - seem to obey ohm's law because none
of them are linear. In all cases the real issue is the difference between
applied voltage and the back-EMF of the motor spinning. When you divide the
difference by the motor resistance you get the motor current - which is
ohm's law again.

Mike

starter contacts

"remco" <whybcuzREMOVE@THISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:54RHe.10323$6%2.4417@fe10.lga...
> "SavvySurfer" <suelandis@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:213f3$42efb221$a2273a76$17783@ALLTEL.NET...
> > Has anyone who owns a first generation Acura TL experienced starter
> > problems?
> >
> > I purchased mine ('98) used in late December and it only has 54,000
miles
> on
> > it, but the last few weeks, I've noticed the starter hesitates
> occasionally.
> > Had a mechanic check it out and he said it is drawing too many amps -
> > sometimes - not consistently (from 8-10).
> > Could this be weather related and should I be concerned since the
problem
> > isn't chronic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sue
>
> Does it just start turning slowly? Any clicking sounds without actually
> turning the car over?
>
> It might be a bad contact on the wire going from the starter to the
battery.
> Mechanics will immediately want to replace the starter to fix your
problem.
> Quite often the starter they removed is still good. While replacing the
> starter, they also clean the wires -- often cleaning (using some 220
> sandpaper) the wires fixed the problem. They don't care, because you are
> paying for the starter anyway and you're happy because the car is running
> again.
>
> If you are comfortable with tools or know someone that is, I'd clean both
> ends of the cable (battery and starter) and see if it goes away. This
could
> very well fix your problem.
>
> If it persists, it could leave you stranded one day (most likely when it
is
> colder outside). If so, it might be a good idea to replace the starter
> before that happens.
>
> Remco
>
>
>