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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22 Oct 2004, 03:01 pm
susserj
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Default Krown Rustproofing

Hi,

I'm picking up an Acura EL Monday. The dealer said I should not
install Krown rustproofing. I had Krown on my 1992 Accord. It dammaged
the hood gasket but I think it was still a good investment. Are the
gaskets on a 2004 Acura likely to be effected by the rustproofing? If
so which ones?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 22 Oct 2004, 03:06 pm
General Schvantzkoph
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:01:10 -0700, susserj wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm picking up an Acura EL Monday. The dealer said I should not
> install Krown rustproofing. I had Krown on my 1992 Accord. It dammaged
> the hood gasket but I think it was still a good investment. Are the
> gaskets on a 2004 Acura likely to be effected by the rustproofing? If
> so which ones?


An honest dealer, who knew?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 22 Oct 2004, 03:25 pm
Bruno
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

On 22 Oct 2004 12:01:10 -0700, susserj@yahoo.ca (susserj) jumped in
and said:

>Hi,
>
>I'm picking up an Acura EL Monday. The dealer said I should not
>install Krown rustproofing. I had Krown on my 1992 Accord. It dammaged
>the hood gasket but I think it was still a good investment. Are the
>gaskets on a 2004 Acura likely to be effected by the rustproofing? If
>so which ones?


The Acura dealer in my vicinity suggested Zeibart. Then again, the
onwer of the dealership owns the Zeibart franchise. Go figure.

Anyway, I went to Krown. I asked about the rubber. They said Honda
uses cheap rubber in some places (moldings and such). They put
silicone spray on those to avoid any problems.

All my research pointed to the Krown solution as the best. And
testimonies from friends and colleagues. Personally, it was my first
time. I am happy with the job they did. Time will tell. But one look
at my friends 8 year old Audi was enough.

--
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 22 Oct 2004, 07:43 pm
Frank
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

I live in the rust belt of Ontario, and I have also been debating
weather to rust proof
my brand new RSX. I 've done A LOT of search and research and
like you my dealer
told me to avoid Rust Ckeck and Crown because of the seal issues.
They also
recommended Ziebart. However, I was not satisfied so I decided to
call around and
did some research to learn about the various products (wax vs.
oil base), the pros and
cons (wax does not drip, but craps and traps moisture and plugs
drainage holes - oil make impact rubber seals). Yes, it is true
that Krown
will expend your seal, but all rubber seals on Acuras could
indeed be affected, including boots
or wires coated in rubber, etc....

I've also learn that most professional services drill holes.
Krown does. Services who do not
drill holes usually charge an arm and a leg and use a waxy paste
that may infact
crack and encourage rust. I've also learn that new Acura/Hondas
are pretty
good when it comes to rust protection so perhaps Rust Proofing
may not be that
helpful for your new EL.

Anyway, myself, I do not like the idea of having a monkey drill
holes
all over my car, so I simply decided to do it myself. . It was
relatively easy and I feel I did as good of a job then any other
services our there. Krown included.

I discovered that applying a rust proofing product is relatively
easy to do from the inside of the car without damaging the
various door panels and mouldings in the process. In fact, most
areas that would technically require rust proofing are accessible
from the inside of the car. I suspect the same is true for your
own EL.

I focused my attention on reaching areas where older Acura/Hondas
tend
to rust the most. In Canada, these are mostly: inside rear
fenders, inside doors and doorsills, and around the windshield. I
have not seen significant rust perforation anywhere else on
Hondas. Incidentally, these are areas where my Acura Integra 1991
started rusting AFTER I had applied crappy wax-based rust
proofing (turns out that the product actually encouraged rusting
by trapping moister -more on that below).

Here is what I did: (of course this varied depending on your car
but I feel that this should be relatively easy on Civics, EL, TL,
Accords,
etc.. specially 2 door models

1) Hondas/Acura door panels can be removed relatively easily
(usually only 4 screws) to install speakers, etc.And by removing
the white plastic sheet glued to the door, you have access to the
whole inside of the door. I sprayed liberally on the whole
door -from the window all the way down, including around the door
handle, locks, hinges, and all around, until it drips out from
the drainage holes. Make sure that these holes remain
unobstructed before placing the panels back. Use a pipe cleaner
if they are.

2) Most of the rear fender is accessible by removing the rear
speakers. It is extremely easy to do. However, reach in and
remove the sound dampening material found inside, at the bottom
BEFORE applying rust protection. It looks like a rectangle, soft
foam pad (12 inches long, by 4" high and 4" deep) wrapped in
thick plastic. I suspect that if one simply drilled holes and
spray rustproof in there without removing the sound dampening
material, as most shops would do, you will have a mess! Worst is
one could be drilling into the plastic wrapper and only spray
inside it - not very helpful. Good reason for D-I-Y!

3) You can also remove the doorplates quite easily and use their
holes to spray the product.

4) I have also found that the rear hatch is easily "sprayable" by
removing the oval rubber "guards" (i.e. door stopper the size of
a wine bottle cork) on each side, and use their holes for
spraying. Use the gravity in your favour and open the hatch all
the way up. Leave it open and spray the product from the highest
hole and let the product drip to the bottom holes.

5) The taillights area. You can remove a panel from inside the
trunk to access that area. You can also go from above the license
plate: there is an opening there that is pretty big.

6) Most sections of the front fenders can be reached via the
engine bay.

When you think about it, it makes sense to DIY:

1) One does not need to drill holes in your shinny new toy! Holes
can let more moisture in. Metal shavings from drilling can fall
inside, encouraging rust.
2) I can apply the product exactly and only where I wanted: the
services will spay their product liberally all over you car; some
of it is doomed to go on the plastic, engine components, rubber
gaskets,
panels and eventually seep into them.

Some will get into the engine bay and make a urge mess. Some
stain your paint...
3) None of the services will spray around the roof or windshield.
I did.
4) I applyed it only where it makes sense, i.e. Where it most
likely to rust (mainly the rear fenders and doors)
5) I avoided spraying on the rubber seals or gaskets (some
product may damage rubber seals)
6) It is cheaper to do: approx. 24$ Canadian (or 17US), instead
then $120-ish
7) It is relatively satisfying to do: messy but easy to do.
8) You WILL do a more thorough job: only you have a vested
interest to do it right.
9) If you want, in addition to this, you still can get the car
undercoated with an oil-based product at Wal-Mart (these monkeys
cannot really screw up that, can they? I mean, how hard is it to
spray the underside of the car). If you are in Canada, do NOT use
the Corrosion-Free product from Canadian Tire. It is a mix oil
and wax-based product and it actually caused my 91 Teg to rust
something bad by trapping moisture and cracking.

Disadvantage of DIY:
1) Was not sure if I was applying too little so I will spray
until it leaks out! I may have put too much, but I do not think
this is possible ;-)
2) Not sure if I am spraying in all the right places. Perhaps I
will miss some?
3) No warranty: Rust Check, Krown and others services provide a
10 year warranty against perforation. However, I am wondering if
their warranty is indeed worth the paper they are written on.
4) It is messy. My wife hated the mess it did to the driveway.
Next time I will do
so parked over a dirt road.
5) The process needs to be repeated yearly.

Product to use:
I have research this and found a few things about rust proofing
products. First, there are the wax-based products (usually
advertised as "no-drip") and oil-based products: heavy and light
oil (both will drip!). I was told to stay away from wax as it
dries, traps moisture, and can blocks drainage holes. This is
what happened to my 1991 Teg which encourage it to rust. However,
"Light Oil" goes everywhere, in all nooks and crannies, but it
can stretch rubber seals and gaskets. If you are worried, you can
protect your seals with silicone based spray first.

Overall, I used almost three full cans of Rust Check ($8 CDN each
@ Canadian Tire) - apparently the best product for rust proofing
available for retail sale (NOT THE UNDERCOATING ONE) - I thought
of getting POR-15 (?), but it is quite expensive. Might be worth
it if you want a "one application deal".

These cans were divided up this way:
- 1 spray can for the both doors (they are nice and drippy!)
- 1/2 for the both rear fenders - behind the doors and above the
rear wheels (I went trough the speakers' opening and sprayed
liberally in there. Not sure if I was able to spray way back,
rear end of the wheel, though)
- 1/2 for the front fenders (via the engine bay)
- 1/8 for the roof area and the hatch and between bumper and
licence plate.
- 1/4 for the hood and inside the engine bay (very very little
there, I hate to work in that slim).

Total Project Cost: 24$ Cdn (3 cans)

I did not do the undercarriage. I *might* consider
having it done professionally with another oil based product as
doing THIS is **messy**!

I am pretty sure I did a better job on the doors then what Krown
or Rust Check would have done by drilling. I was really able to
get up there into the nooks and all. Didn't spray on stuff I did
not want either (pw motor, etc.). Door panels came off and on
without a problem. Nothing broke. And the best of it. NO HOLES
DRILLED!

I hope this helps you make a decision. By the way, if you are
leasing,
you SHOULD NOT EVEN WORRY about rust proofing it...

Cheers!


"susserj" <susserj@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:6c303191.0410221101.5ff5b47a@posting.google.c om...
> Hi,
>
> I'm picking up an Acura EL Monday. The dealer said I should not
> install Krown rustproofing. I had Krown on my 1992 Accord. It
> dammaged
> the hood gasket but I think it was still a good investment.
> Are the
> gaskets on a 2004 Acura likely to be effected by the
> rustproofing? If
> so which ones?




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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 22 Oct 2004, 09:18 pm
Bruno
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:43:34 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> jumped
in and said:

>I 've done A LOT of search and research and
>like you my dealer
>told me to avoid Rust Ckeck and Crown because of the seal issues.
>They also
>recommended Ziebart.


Your dealer recommended Ziebart. Ziebart uses the non-drip stuff,
which traps moisture and doesn't get in all the nooks. Maybe your
dealer wants to sell you more cars. Or maybe, like the guy who owns
both Acura dealerships in my region, he also owns some Ziebart
franchines.

--
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 22 Oct 2004, 09:29 pm
Frank
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing


"Bruno" <insert@address.here> wrote in message
news:1098494280.Hrem+0EHguWvDRYgXk7xkA@teranews...
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:43:34 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com>
> jumped
> in and said:
>
>>I 've done A LOT of search and research and
>>like you my dealer
>>told me to avoid Rust Ckeck and Crown because of the seal
>>issues.
>>They also
>>recommended Ziebart.

>
> Your dealer recommended Ziebart. Ziebart uses the non-drip
> stuff,
> which traps moisture and doesn't get in all the nooks. Maybe
> your
> dealer wants to sell you more cars. Or maybe, like the guy who
> owns
> both Acura dealerships in my region, he also owns some Ziebart
> franchines.


That is exactly why I did not go with ZIEBART- in fact, all
no-drip product have certain amount of wax. It's the wax that
eventually dries and makes it retain moisture. That is why I did
it myself with light oil based product from rust check. My
dealer, however, do not own Ziebart around here. I think there is
some kick back, however.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 22 Oct 2004, 11:53 pm
Bill Freeman
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

"Coatings" (e.g. Ziebart for one) are known "profit builders" that
do little for rust prevention, as everyone has mentioned. Rust proofing has
to be done AT THE FACTORY on BARE METAL during the priming/painting process.
I've a 1990 Acura Integra .. . no rust after nearly 15 years .. .
Mid-Atlantic and New England weather. Recommend washing the salt off
when/where you can, annual repair of scratches and chips and use of
"Derusto" on any rusted areas. Poppy cock on Honda gaskets being bad. Use
silicone to prevent ice freezing and ozone cracking.


Frank <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:loudnYMq45I9KuTcRVn-1A@rogers.com...
>
> "Bruno" <insert@address.here> wrote in message
> news:1098494280.Hrem+0EHguWvDRYgXk7xkA@teranews...
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:43:34 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com>
> > jumped
> > in and said:
> >
> >>I 've done A LOT of search and research and
> >>like you my dealer
> >>told me to avoid Rust Ckeck and Crown because of the seal
> >>issues.
> >>They also
> >>recommended Ziebart.

> >
> > Your dealer recommended Ziebart. Ziebart uses the non-drip
> > stuff,
> > which traps moisture and doesn't get in all the nooks. Maybe
> > your
> > dealer wants to sell you more cars. Or maybe, like the guy who
> > owns
> > both Acura dealerships in my region, he also owns some Ziebart
> > franchines.

>
> That is exactly why I did not go with ZIEBART- in fact, all
> no-drip product have certain amount of wax. It's the wax that
> eventually dries and makes it retain moisture. That is why I did
> it myself with light oil based product from rust check. My
> dealer, however, do not own Ziebart around here. I think there is
> some kick back, however.
>
>



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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 23 Oct 2004, 09:35 am
Jeremiah
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

Frank wrote:
> "Bruno" <insert@address.here> wrote in message
> news:1098494280.Hrem+0EHguWvDRYgXk7xkA@teranews...
>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:43:34 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com>
>> jumped
>> in and said:
>>
>>> I 've done A LOT of search and research and
>>> like you my dealer
>>> told me to avoid Rust Ckeck and Crown because of the seal
>>> issues.
>>> They also
>>> recommended Ziebart.

>>
>> Your dealer recommended Ziebart. Ziebart uses the non-drip
>> stuff,
>> which traps moisture and doesn't get in all the nooks. Maybe
>> your
>> dealer wants to sell you more cars. Or maybe, like the guy who
>> owns
>> both Acura dealerships in my region, he also owns some Ziebart
>> franchines.

>
> That is exactly why I did not go with ZIEBART- in fact, all
> no-drip product have certain amount of wax. It's the wax that
> eventually dries and makes it retain moisture. That is why I did
> it myself with light oil based product from rust check. My
> dealer, however, do not own Ziebart around here. I think there is
> some kick back, however.


I've never seen or had with any cars done with Ziebart, going back to 1963
with the first one I had done. After 29 years in western PA, the '63 had
absolutely no rust problems. I've personally had a new '89 TBird done, and
after 15 years in IL, no. VA, and IN, had no rust problems. The trouble
with oil based products is that they usually have to be 'renewed' annually.
But with the new treatments being done at the factories now, these problems
may have been resolved. Maybe,.....! LOL


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 23 Oct 2004, 11:44 am
Frank
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

I guess we pretty much all agree that new cars are well protected
at the factory against rust and most likely do not require more
protection. Is this correct? For me, anything extra applied
aftermarket is pretty much for my peace of mind: at best, it does
protect, at worst, you would hope that is does nothing (as
opposed to encourage rust).

Yes, light oil products needs to be reapplied annually. I only
know of one product here that does not need annual application
but it is 1200$ CDN and no longer warranty. However, I am warry
of the drying effect, and the product trapping moisture.

As for Zeibart, the 2 Zeibart franchises here in Ottawa told me
that I needed to come back annually (at 49.99$ CDN a visit) for
reapplication. So I, here, Zeibart is telling us to reapply
annually, just like Krown or Rust Check.

Anyways, I like working on my car. I am no mechanic, but I like
it. Plus, 30$ for the product and 2 hours of my time is nothing.
And you are never better served but by yourself, right? I am
quite sure I applied as much (or more) of the product, and
exactly where I wanted it.I posted my DIY experience here and a
few other places others can realize that it is not that
complicated and if they want to do it, they can do so themselves.

I was thinking, perhaps, of going to Krown or Rust Check with the
inside panels off and ask them to apply it as much as they can
without drilling holes. Pehaps I will do so every third year, and
DIY for years in between.

Cheers all!

"Jeremiah" <jsmerk@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2tv517F228g57U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Frank wrote:
>> "Bruno" <insert@address.here> wrote in message
>> news:1098494280.Hrem+0EHguWvDRYgXk7xkA@teranews...
>>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:43:34 -0400, "Frank"
>>> <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com>
>>> jumped
>>> in and said:
>>>
>>>> I 've done A LOT of search and research and
>>>> like you my dealer
>>>> told me to avoid Rust Ckeck and Crown because of the seal
>>>> issues.
>>>> They also
>>>> recommended Ziebart.
>>>
>>> Your dealer recommended Ziebart. Ziebart uses the non-drip
>>> stuff,
>>> which traps moisture and doesn't get in all the nooks. Maybe
>>> your
>>> dealer wants to sell you more cars. Or maybe, like the guy
>>> who
>>> owns
>>> both Acura dealerships in my region, he also owns some
>>> Ziebart
>>> franchines.

>>
>> That is exactly why I did not go with ZIEBART- in fact, all
>> no-drip product have certain amount of wax. It's the wax that
>> eventually dries and makes it retain moisture. That is why I
>> did
>> it myself with light oil based product from rust check. My
>> dealer, however, do not own Ziebart around here. I think there
>> is
>> some kick back, however.

>
> I've never seen or had with any cars done with Ziebart, going
> back to 1963
> with the first one I had done. After 29 years in western PA,
> the '63 had
> absolutely no rust problems. I've personally had a new '89
> TBird done, and
> after 15 years in IL, no. VA, and IN, had no rust problems.
> The trouble
> with oil based products is that they usually have to be
> 'renewed' annually.
> But with the new treatments being done at the factories now,
> these problems
> may have been resolved. Maybe,.....! LOL
>
>



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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 23 Oct 2004, 05:04 pm
Bruno
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Krown Rustproofing

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:44:24 -0400, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> jumped
in and said:

>
>I was thinking, perhaps, of going to Krown or Rust Check with the
>inside panels off and ask them to apply it as much as they can
>without drilling holes. Pehaps I will do so every third year, and
>DIY for years in between.
>

Actually, you can go to Krown and buy their stuff in a spray can. You
can use it as a general purpose lubricant, too. Kinda like WD-40. And
it's not petroleum based.

--
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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