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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05 Oct 2004, 11:28 am
rbcap
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Posts: n/a
Default 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

I am trying to decide between the 2005 Acura TL and the 2005 Lexus
ES330. I know that they are different styles etc and some would say
you either like one or the other. But I think there are pros and cons
and I could go for either. The prices I am hearing, in Canadian
dollars, for the models including the Navigation systems, are as
follows:

Acura: $51,000
Lexus $60,000

Both prices are on the road prices icluding all taxes (15%). Both are
automatic.

I would be interested in getting others' opinions regarding these two
models. Which would you go for? Rationale? Pros & cons etc. Thanks
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05 Oct 2004, 07:13 pm
Carl S. Moore
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

How old are you.....? If young at heart, go for the TL.

Carl

"rbcap" <rbcaputo@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:325e5ca1.0410050828.4ce77a50@posting.google.c om...
> I am trying to decide between the 2005 Acura TL and the 2005 Lexus
> ES330. I know that they are different styles etc and some would say
> you either like one or the other. But I think there are pros and cons
> and I could go for either. The prices I am hearing, in Canadian
> dollars, for the models including the Navigation systems, are as
> follows:
>
> Acura: $51,000
> Lexus $60,000
>
> Both prices are on the road prices icluding all taxes (15%). Both are
> automatic.
>
> I would be interested in getting others' opinions regarding these two
> models. Which would you go for? Rationale? Pros & cons etc. Thanks



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05 Oct 2004, 11:32 pm
Rick K
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

"rbcap" wrote:
> I am trying to decide between the 2005 Acura TL and the 2005 Lexus
> ES330. I know that they are different styles etc and some would say
> you either like one or the other. But I think there are pros and cons
> and I could go for either. [ ... snip ...]
> I would be interested in getting others' opinions regarding these two
> models. Which would you go for? Rationale? Pros & cons etc. Thanks


In a nutshell: are you a driver, or an operator?
If you are a driver, go for the TL. If you enjoy driving, look forward
to driving, are engaged while driving, get the TL.
If you want to "get it over with" and want to make the experience as
painless as possible, get the ES330. If you prefer to be isolated from
the road, the act of driving, the world in general while in the car, the
Lexus is your best bet.

Reliability? A wash basically.
Cost of vehicle? Similar prices.
Value? You can check the features list and decide.
Cachet? It depends. Do you have a pulse? Buy the TL.
Quality of service? Another wash.
Gas mileage? Look it up, do some research.
Performance? The nod goes to the TL.

Actually, ultimately, as it has been said within this group previously,
if you're laying out $35K or more for a car, and you're asking this
group to "decide" for you? These two cars are very different in
target market, and in execution. Perhaps you can help me.
I'm thinking of buying a vacation property, or a box of Kleenex.
Both have pros and cons ... =8^)

--
Rick K


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06 Oct 2004, 02:18 pm
rbcap
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

"Rick K" <vroop@dingo-nonsense.org> wrote in message news:<ezK8d.7218$Rf1.222@newssvr19.news.prodigy.co m>...
> "rbcap" wrote:
> > I am trying to decide between the 2005 Acura TL and the 2005 Lexus
> > ES330. I know that they are different styles etc and some would say
> > you either like one or the other. But I think there are pros and cons
> > and I could go for either. [ ... snip ...]
> > I would be interested in getting others' opinions regarding these two
> > models. Which would you go for? Rationale? Pros & cons etc. Thanks

>
> In a nutshell: are you a driver, or an operator?
> If you are a driver, go for the TL. If you enjoy driving, look forward
> to driving, are engaged while driving, get the TL.
> If you want to "get it over with" and want to make the experience as
> painless as possible, get the ES330. If you prefer to be isolated from
> the road, the act of driving, the world in general while in the car, the
> Lexus is your best bet.
>
> Reliability? A wash basically.
> Cost of vehicle? Similar prices.
> Value? You can check the features list and decide.
> Cachet? It depends. Do you have a pulse? Buy the TL.
> Quality of service? Another wash.
> Gas mileage? Look it up, do some research.
> Performance? The nod goes to the TL.
>
> Actually, ultimately, as it has been said within this group previously,
> if you're laying out $35K or more for a car, and you're asking this
> group to "decide" for you? These two cars are very different in
> target market, and in execution. Perhaps you can help me.
> I'm thinking of buying a vacation property, or a box of Kleenex.
> Both have pros and cons ... =8^)


Rick, thanks for your valuable comments. Just a few comments for
clarification:
- The prices of the vehicles are not similar. The cost of the lexus is
about 20% higher.
- I don't believe that comparing a Lexus ES330 to an Acura TL is like
comparing a cottage to a box of kleenex.....

Any other comments regarding the two vehicles would be appreciated.
Thanks
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06 Oct 2004, 07:22 pm
Carl S. Moore
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

Well said.....


"Rick K" <vroop@dingo-nonsense.org> wrote in message
news:ezK8d.7218$Rf1.222@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com ...
> "rbcap" wrote:
> > I am trying to decide between the 2005 Acura TL and the 2005 Lexus
> > ES330. I know that they are different styles etc and some would say
> > you either like one or the other. But I think there are pros and cons
> > and I could go for either. [ ... snip ...]
> > I would be interested in getting others' opinions regarding these two
> > models. Which would you go for? Rationale? Pros & cons etc. Thanks

>
> In a nutshell: are you a driver, or an operator?
> If you are a driver, go for the TL. If you enjoy driving, look forward
> to driving, are engaged while driving, get the TL.
> If you want to "get it over with" and want to make the experience as
> painless as possible, get the ES330. If you prefer to be isolated from
> the road, the act of driving, the world in general while in the car, the
> Lexus is your best bet.
>
> Reliability? A wash basically.
> Cost of vehicle? Similar prices.
> Value? You can check the features list and decide.
> Cachet? It depends. Do you have a pulse? Buy the TL.
> Quality of service? Another wash.
> Gas mileage? Look it up, do some research.
> Performance? The nod goes to the TL.
>
> Actually, ultimately, as it has been said within this group previously,
> if you're laying out $35K or more for a car, and you're asking this
> group to "decide" for you? These two cars are very different in
> target market, and in execution. Perhaps you can help me.
> I'm thinking of buying a vacation property, or a box of Kleenex.
> Both have pros and cons ... =8^)
>
> --
> Rick K
>
>



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08 Oct 2004, 12:21 am
Rick K
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

In response to my not-so-gentle-but-partially-tongue-in-cheek
comments, "rbcap" wrote:
> Rick, thanks for your valuable comments. Just a few comments for
> clarification:
> - The prices of the vehicles are not similar. The cost of the lexus is
> about 20% higher.
> - I don't believe that comparing a Lexus ES330 to an Acura TL is like
> comparing a cottage to a box of kleenex.....
>
> Any other comments regarding the two vehicles would be appreciated.
> Thanks


Ah, therein lies the rub. While perhaps not as different as a box of Kleenex
compared to "Vacation Property" (no simple "cottage" implied), the two
cars in question, within the domain of cardom, are quite dissimilar.
While both are from Japanese companies, and in the "near-luxury" segment,
they are oriented towards vastly different types of buyers, or dare we
say personalities.

Somehow, it also seems you missed the comments on reliability, value,
cachet, etc. Apparently you chose to see the comment on price.
Life is too short to get in a pissing match over facts and figures in a
newsgroup posting, especially facts and figures that anyone can look up.
Oh, if we must ...

Pricing from Edmunds on-line:
Lexus ES330 MSRP $31975 + $625 Dest charge = $32,420
Acura TL MSRP $32900 + $570 Dest charge = $33,470

Now, these are national base prices with no options. Oh, I can
hear it now ... but , but , but. Similarly equipped? Nope, probably not.
Dealer markup? Who knows? What this amounts to is that both
vehicles base at nearly the same price. You say the Lexus is 20%
higher than the TL? Hmmmm. Interesting math. Maybe where you
shop. Maybe in your state. Maybe on your planet. Not on earth,
unless the dealer sees a live one coming as you approach ...

AFAIC, the Lexus isn't worth it at the same price, so if you are somehow
paying 20% more for it, than consider the decision made. Cha-ching, TL.

I'm assuming you posted to a Lexus group also, in an effort to get their
input as well as that from this Acura-oriented bunch. Speaking for
myself only, I'd advise taking what these groups say with a large grain
of salt, since folks tend to be sorta kinda myopic on the cars they've
purchased. Your best bet, within the context of these groups, and other
forums like the "consumer rating" at Edmunds or elsewhere, is to look
for repeating patterns in problems cropping up. Can you say "auto
tranny in a late model TL"?

I sincerely hope your purchase, no matter what vehicle, works out
for you, and proves to be a sound investment. But, in case it was
too cryptic before, I'll try again: If you like to drive, buy the Acura.
If you don't, buy the Lexus. That metric outweighs all the other
possible ways of distinguishing between these two particular cars.
Good luck.

--
Rick K














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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08 Oct 2004, 12:34 am
Larry J.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

Waiving the right to remain silent, "Rick K"
<vroop@dingo-nonsense.org> said:

> Ah, therein lies the rub. While perhaps not as different as a
> box of Kleenex compared to "Vacation Property" (no simple
> "cottage" implied), the two cars in question, within the domain
> of cardom, are quite dissimilar. While both are from Japanese
> companies, and in the "near-luxury" segment, they are oriented
> towards vastly different types of buyers, or dare we say
> personalities.


"Vastly different types of buyers"..? If that were the case, then
you would see a lot fewer people comparing the two. I did also.

--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"Lord, are we worthy of the task that lies before us,
or are we just jerking off..?"
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08 Oct 2004, 05:53 am
Bruno
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

On 5 Oct 2004 09:28:29 -0700, rbcaputo@rogers.com (rbcap) jumped in
and said:

>I am trying to decide between the 2005 Acura TL and the 2005 Lexus
>ES330. I know that they are different styles etc and some would say
>you either like one or the other. But I think there are pros and cons
>and I could go for either. The prices I am hearing, in Canadian
>dollars, for the models including the Navigation systems, are as
>follows:
>
>Acura: $51,000
>Lexus $60,000
>
>Both prices are on the road prices icluding all taxes (15%). Both are
>automatic.
>
>I would be interested in getting others' opinions regarding these two
>models. Which would you go for? Rationale? Pros & cons etc. Thanks


If the Solara I used to have is any indication, stay away from Lexus.
That Solara was a piece of crap. And about as sporty as, well, a
Camry. The whole car would bend and twist, producing all sorts of
creaks and rattles. Not a rigid automobile.

I traded the piece of shit for a TL. Man, now that was a smart move!

--
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08 Oct 2004, 12:30 pm
rbcap
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

"Rick K" <vroop@dingo-nonsense.org> wrote in message news:<ktp9d.14096$cQ1.11054@newssvr31.news.prodigy .com>...
> In response to my not-so-gentle-but-partially-tongue-in-cheek
> comments, "rbcap" wrote:
> > Rick, thanks for your valuable comments. Just a few comments for
> > clarification:
> > - The prices of the vehicles are not similar. The cost of the lexus is
> > about 20% higher.
> > - I don't believe that comparing a Lexus ES330 to an Acura TL is like
> > comparing a cottage to a box of kleenex.....
> >
> > Any other comments regarding the two vehicles would be appreciated.
> > Thanks

>
> Ah, therein lies the rub. While perhaps not as different as a box of Kleenex
> compared to "Vacation Property" (no simple "cottage" implied), the two
> cars in question, within the domain of cardom, are quite dissimilar.
> While both are from Japanese companies, and in the "near-luxury" segment,
> they are oriented towards vastly different types of buyers, or dare we
> say personalities.
>
> Somehow, it also seems you missed the comments on reliability, value,
> cachet, etc. Apparently you chose to see the comment on price.
> Life is too short to get in a pissing match over facts and figures in a
> newsgroup posting, especially facts and figures that anyone can look up.
> Oh, if we must ...
>
> Pricing from Edmunds on-line:
> Lexus ES330 MSRP $31975 + $625 Dest charge = $32,420
> Acura TL MSRP $32900 + $570 Dest charge = $33,470
>
> Now, these are national base prices with no options. Oh, I can
> hear it now ... but , but , but. Similarly equipped? Nope, probably not.
> Dealer markup? Who knows? What this amounts to is that both
> vehicles base at nearly the same price. You say the Lexus is 20%
> higher than the TL? Hmmmm. Interesting math. Maybe where you
> shop. Maybe in your state. Maybe on your planet. Not on earth,
> unless the dealer sees a live one coming as you approach ...
>
> AFAIC, the Lexus isn't worth it at the same price, so if you are somehow
> paying 20% more for it, than consider the decision made. Cha-ching, TL.
>
> I'm assuming you posted to a Lexus group also, in an effort to get their
> input as well as that from this Acura-oriented bunch. Speaking for
> myself only, I'd advise taking what these groups say with a large grain
> of salt, since folks tend to be sorta kinda myopic on the cars they've
> purchased. Your best bet, within the context of these groups, and other
> forums like the "consumer rating" at Edmunds or elsewhere, is to look
> for repeating patterns in problems cropping up. Can you say "auto
> tranny in a late model TL"?
>
> I sincerely hope your purchase, no matter what vehicle, works out
> for you, and proves to be a sound investment. But, in case it was
> too cryptic before, I'll try again: If you like to drive, buy the Acura.
> If you don't, buy the Lexus. That metric outweighs all the other
> possible ways of distinguishing between these two particular cars.
> Good luck.


Rick, I understand what you are saying and that you definitely prefer
the TL over the ES330. It's your type of car....and maybe mine.
Perhaps I'm not as emotional about the cars as some others and I don't
see it as unusual or improper to look at these two cars.

Regarding the prices though, I'm still getting the following quotes.
Note that this is in Canada and in Canadian dollars:

TL: $51,000
ES330: $60,000

As I mentioned before these are "on the road prices" including taxes
and everything else. Note also that these prices are for the models
with the navigation system (and everything else that comes along with
the package) I agree that the base prices are similar. However,in
Canada, if you want the navigation system, then you have to pay about
20% more for the Lexus. It seems that in order to get the nav system
with the Lexus, they force you to get a whole bunch of other options.
Is it different elsewhere?

Any other comments regarding the reliability of the two cars? I'm
inclined to think (just my perception) the Lexus may be slightly
better. Comments/experience? I have never owned Lexus or Acura.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08 Oct 2004, 12:34 pm
MZ
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2005 Acura TL vs Lexus ES330

Did you drive both? That's how I would decide (in your case). They are
both great cars. Buy the one that "feels" right to you.

FWIW,
MZ
"rbcap" <rbcaputo@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:325e5ca1.0410050828.4ce77a50@posting.google.c om...
>I am trying to decide between the 2005 Acura TL and the 2005 Lexus
> ES330. I know that they are different styles etc and some would say
> you either like one or the other. But I think there are pros and cons
> and I could go for either. The prices I am hearing, in Canadian
> dollars, for the models including the Navigation systems, are as
> follows:
>
> Acura: $51,000
> Lexus $60,000
>
> Both prices are on the road prices icluding all taxes (15%). Both are
> automatic.
>
> I would be interested in getting others' opinions regarding these two
> models. Which would you go for? Rationale? Pros & cons etc. Thanks



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