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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2004, 08:15 pm
Frank
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Default Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products

Hi there all

I live in the rust belt of Ontario where snow and calcium is
everpresent between the months of December and March!

I have a brand new 2004 RSX. My dealer just told me that applying
rust
proofing treatment that uses "heavy oils" , especially Krown and
Rust Check, will cancel the Acura rust warranty (his quotes).
As anyone been told this? I have his email mentioning this...

When pressed, he specifically mentioned to avoid Krown and Rust
Check, as these products will "warp gaskets and seals". I did not
find any reference to this on Krown or Rust-Check's site. The
only rustproofing product he suggested was Ziebart. This is a
one-time application and provides a 10 year perforation warranty.

I have no doubt about him truly believing that my warranty would
be void should I use either this product. (He could be incorrect
yet believe what he says). Is he correct?

As anyone here who has an Acura were told about this? What
surprises
me is that I have been told only at my first oil change and not
before. Also,
I did not find any reference to this inthe owner's manual. I did
a search on rust proofing and no where did I find any reference
to Acura not honouring their warranty: I did read about people
stating this, but no solid evidence. I know they drill holes, or
the goo can block evacuation holes, but beside this, no solid
evidence.

I also would like to check this with Honda or Acura, but cannot
find their email in Canada. Anyone has it?

I do have a few more questions.. Assuming rust proofing is ok,
what
is the difference between "undercoating" and "rust proofing"? Do
undercoating with oil do a good job (Oil Guard)? Do they do the
wheel wells as well when they do only undercoating? Also, what
product do they use?

What do you guys suggest for rust proofing? I plan to keep the
car extra clean and for a long time; so do I need the full rust
proofing or just the undercoating? My other 91 Integra only
started to develop rust after 8 or 9 year, but I was not keeping
it as clean as I plan to with this one...

Thanks in advance.



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2004, 08:51 pm
John Ings
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Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:15:13 GMT, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote:

>what
>is the difference between "undercoating" and "rust proofing"?


Undercoat attempts to prevent brine that is being splashed up by the
wheels from getting at the underside of the car. Some undercoats are a
tar-like thick layer which stays somewhat flexible at summer
temperatures but is quite brittle when cold

Other undrcoats use a very thick grease-like oil

>Do undercoating with oil do a good job (Oil Guard)?


Products like Oil Guard take a different approach. They use a really
thin oil, it's rather like hydraulic fluid. They drill holes in your
doorsills a squirt it in from above. Their target is an area the
undercoat can't protect, the spot-welded seams where the unit body is
held together. Those areas are very vulnerable to rust because the
layers of metal are so close together there is capillary action to
draw brine up into them, and the spot welding makes the metal
susceptible to rusting. The skinny oils are meant to protect those
seams, but to be really effective they need to be reapplied annually.

>Do they do the
>wheel wells as well when they do only undercoating? Also, what
>product do they use?


Who's they?

>What do you guys suggest for rust proofing? I plan to keep the
>car extra clean and for a long time; so do I need the full rust
>proofing or just the undercoating?


I would say both.

>My other 91 Integra only
>started to develop rust after 8 or 9 year, but I was not keeping
>it as clean as I plan to with this one...


Then plan on pulling up the carpets every spring and getting the salt
that has fallen off your winter boots out of them. That's a main cause
of rusted out floorboards. Also be aware that a lot of rusing can be
going on underneath plastic trim panels. Get a magnet and check to see
how much of what looks like metal isn't!

In winter avoid parking in heated underground garages. Rust doesn't
happen when the car is cold, it happens when temperatures are near
freezing and brine slush is liquid and mobile.

If you really seriously want to stop rust cold, use this stuff

www.por15.com

It's expensive, it's a pain in the ass to apply and you'll have to put
it on yourself before undercoat is applied, but man does it work!



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2004, 08:58 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products

In article <3fhai0lvr2r6ero55mb5h7idltp8cqn1rj@4ax.com>,
John Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote:

> Then plan on pulling up the carpets every spring and getting the salt
> that has fallen off your winter boots out of them. That's a main cause
> of rusted out floorboards.


Why not just a big heavy Weathertech-like mat to prevent the problem in
the first place?

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2004, 10:04 pm
John Ings
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:58:06 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>> Then plan on pulling up the carpets every spring and getting the salt
>> that has fallen off your winter boots out of them. That's a main cause
>> of rusted out floorboards.

>
>Why not just a big heavy Weathertech-like mat to prevent the problem in
>the first place?


They're a big help, but they're not perfect. Some slush always seems
to get around the edges, and the car's carpets act like a poultice,
holding the brine against the floorboards long after winter is over.

Something I found curious when brazing a couple of square feet of new
sheet metal into the floorboards of an 87 CRX was that the rust
actually seemed to be worse under the sealant that the factory applies
to the cracks where the floor metal folds down and becomes part of the
doorsills. Neither that sealant or ordinary paint is actually
waterproof. It's just a leetle bit pourous, and that's all brine needs
to get through to the metal.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2004, 10:28 pm
Frank
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products


"John Ings" <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
news:3fhai0lvr2r6ero55mb5h7idltp8cqn1rj@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:15:13 GMT, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com>
> wrote:
>
>>what
>>is the difference between "undercoating" and "rust proofing"?

>
> Undercoat attempts to prevent brine that is being splashed up
> by the
> wheels from getting at the underside of the car. Some
> undercoats are a
> tar-like thick layer which stays somewhat flexible at summer
> temperatures but is quite brittle when cold
>
> Other undrcoats use a very thick grease-like oil
>
>>Do undercoating with oil do a good job (Oil Guard)?

>
> Products like Oil Guard take a different approach. They use a
> really
> thin oil, it's rather like hydraulic fluid. They drill holes in
> your
> doorsills a squirt it in from above. Their target is an area
> the
> undercoat can't protect, the spot-welded seams where the unit
> body is
> held together. Those areas are very vulnerable to rust because
> the
> layers of metal are so close together there is capillary action
> to
> draw brine up into them, and the spot welding makes the metal
> susceptible to rusting. The skinny oils are meant to protect
> those
> seams, but to be really effective they need to be reapplied
> annually.
>
>>Do they do the
>>wheel wells as well when they do only undercoating? Also, what
>>product do they use?

>
> Who's they?
>
>>What do you guys suggest for rust proofing? I plan to keep the
>>car extra clean and for a long time; so do I need the full rust
>>proofing or just the undercoating?

>
> I would say both.
>
>>My other 91 Integra only
>>started to develop rust after 8 or 9 year, but I was not
>>keeping
>>it as clean as I plan to with this one...

>
> Then plan on pulling up the carpets every spring and getting
> the salt
> that has fallen off your winter boots out of them. That's a
> main cause
> of rusted out floorboards. Also be aware that a lot of rusing
> can be
> going on underneath plastic trim panels. Get a magnet and check
> to see
> how much of what looks like metal isn't!
>
> In winter avoid parking in heated underground garages. Rust
> doesn't
> happen when the car is cold, it happens when temperatures are
> near
> freezing and brine slush is liquid and mobile.
>
> If you really seriously want to stop rust cold, use this stuff
>
> www.por15.com
>
> It's expensive, it's a pain in the ass to apply and you'll have
> to put
> it on yourself before undercoat is applied, but man does it
> work!
>


Thanks John for the time you took to answer my questions. Much
appreciated. I only now need to know if the voiding of the
warranty that the service manager told me is true or not.
Tomorrow I am getting at the bottom of this and calling acura
directly.

Frank


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2004, 07:59 am
Bruno
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 02:28:20 GMT, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> waived
the right to be silent and professed:

>
>Thanks John for the time you took to answer my questions. Much
>appreciated. I only now need to know if the voiding of the
>warranty that the service manager told me is true or not.
>Tomorrow I am getting at the bottom of this and calling acura
>directly.
>
>Frank
>

Please let us know what Acura has to say. I want to get my car done
too.

BTW, I have a friend with an 10-year old Audi that has been to Krown
every year. The car still looks new.

Also, the manufacturer's warranties are always against "perforation",
which is very unlikely to happen within the warranty timeframes,
except if there is a major defect in the car. I guess that's the whole
point of the warranty, to protect from defects.

--
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2004, 05:59 pm
Frank
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products


"Bruno" <insert@address.here> wrote in message
news:4npbi0tcarcneh2d5bg9luf4vifsmht408@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 02:28:20 GMT, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com>
> waived
> the right to be silent and professed:
>
>>
>>Thanks John for the time you took to answer my questions. Much
>>appreciated. I only now need to know if the voiding of the
>>warranty that the service manager told me is true or not.
>>Tomorrow I am getting at the bottom of this and calling acura
>>directly.
>>
>>Frank
>>

> Please let us know what Acura has to say. I want to get my car
> done
> too.
>
> BTW, I have a friend with an 10-year old Audi that has been to
> Krown
> every year. The car still looks new.
>
> Also, the manufacturer's warranties are always against
> "perforation",
> which is very unlikely to happen within the warranty
> timeframes,
> except if there is a major defect in the car. I guess that's
> the whole
> point of the warranty, to protect from defects.


Ok, I called Acura Canada on this and they told me that NO rust
protection system will void the warranty from Acura. However, if
they drill holes and or break something during the process, it is
their problem and the warranty will not apply.

I have also learned a few things about the various products for
rustproofing.
There seems to be 2 types: Waxed-Based and Oil-Based. The
Oil-Based are also divided into two types: the petrolium-based
product and the mineral oil based product. All in all, it seems
that the mineral based products are better on as 1) it does not
warp or affect rubber and bushing and 2) wax can, under certain
situation, trap moisture and make matter worst.

Anyway, the dealership either lied to me or just did not know. I
am now checking around for the various oil-based option. It seems
that, of all places, WalMart has the cheapest offering in this
regards.. However, man, I am not sure if I want a WalMart
teenager drill holes in my car!

Cheers all


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2004, 09:28 pm
Dave M.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products

"My other 91 Integra only
started to develop rust after 8 or 9 year, but I was not keeping
it as clean as I plan to with this one..."

It's been 13 years more and improvements in body construction might mean at
least 10-15 years before you see rust. I'd avoid any rustproofing products.

Dave M.

"Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:_uuVc.461$G7G.417@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
>
> "Bruno" <insert@address.here> wrote in message
> news:4npbi0tcarcneh2d5bg9luf4vifsmht408@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 02:28:20 GMT, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com>
> > waived
> > the right to be silent and professed:
> >
> >>
> >>Thanks John for the time you took to answer my questions. Much
> >>appreciated. I only now need to know if the voiding of the
> >>warranty that the service manager told me is true or not.
> >>Tomorrow I am getting at the bottom of this and calling acura
> >>directly.
> >>
> >>Frank
> >>

> > Please let us know what Acura has to say. I want to get my car
> > done
> > too.
> >
> > BTW, I have a friend with an 10-year old Audi that has been to
> > Krown
> > every year. The car still looks new.
> >
> > Also, the manufacturer's warranties are always against
> > "perforation",
> > which is very unlikely to happen within the warranty
> > timeframes,
> > except if there is a major defect in the car. I guess that's
> > the whole
> > point of the warranty, to protect from defects.

>
> Ok, I called Acura Canada on this and they told me that NO rust
> protection system will void the warranty from Acura. However, if
> they drill holes and or break something during the process, it is
> their problem and the warranty will not apply.
>
> I have also learned a few things about the various products for
> rustproofing.
> There seems to be 2 types: Waxed-Based and Oil-Based. The
> Oil-Based are also divided into two types: the petrolium-based
> product and the mineral oil based product. All in all, it seems
> that the mineral based products are better on as 1) it does not
> warp or affect rubber and bushing and 2) wax can, under certain
> situation, trap moisture and make matter worst.
>
> Anyway, the dealership either lied to me or just did not know. I
> am now checking around for the various oil-based option. It seems
> that, of all places, WalMart has the cheapest offering in this
> regards.. However, man, I am not sure if I want a WalMart
> teenager drill holes in my car!
>
> Cheers all
>
>



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 21 Aug 2004, 12:32 am
Harry Cox
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Question abour Honda/Acura warranty, rustproofing and various rustproofing products

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:51:27 -0700, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org>
wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 00:15:13 GMT, "Frank" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>>what
>>is the difference between "undercoating" and "rust proofing"?

>
>Undercoat attempts to prevent brine that is being splashed up by the
>wheels from getting at the underside of the car. Some undercoats are a
>tar-like thick layer which stays somewhat flexible at summer
>temperatures but is quite brittle when cold


I've heard that undercoat is crap and useless, and can trap brine
between it and the metal. It does help to deaden sound, though.
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