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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2004, 11:05 am
Natman
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

http://www.knfilterchargers.com/sear...px?Prod=E-0999

I got a response to an email requesting this filter 9 years ago! I
can't believe that K&N is finally releasing this filter, only 14 years
after production of the 1st gen stopped.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2004, 08:32 pm
Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend


"Natman" <nat_mann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:411ce636.2030579@netnews.comcast.net...
> http://www.knfilterchargers.com/sear...px?Prod=E-0999
>
> I got a response to an email requesting this filter 9 years ago! I
> can't believe that K&N is finally releasing this filter, only 14 years
> after production of the 1st gen stopped.


I need to change mine soon. Glad to see this. Now I hope I can find one
and afford it

Doug


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2004, 11:14 am
Stuart Gordon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

They are WASHABLE !
K&N filters MUST be degreased and re-oiled every year at least or they will
let tons of crap into your engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress" <dholtzNOSPAM@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vXdTc.70277$6t1.25716@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "Natman" <nat_mann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:411ce636.2030579@netnews.comcast.net...
> > http://www.knfilterchargers.com/sear...px?Prod=E-0999
> >
> > I got a response to an email requesting this filter 9 years ago! I
> > can't believe that K&N is finally releasing this filter, only 14 years
> > after production of the 1st gen stopped.

>
> I need to change mine soon. Glad to see this. Now I hope I can find one
> and afford it
>
> Doug
>
>



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2004, 02:06 pm
David H.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

bullshit - K&N recommends washing and degreasing every 50,000 to 100,000
miles.

In article <Il4Vc.456$NRf.258@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.roger s.com>,
"Stuart Gordon" <sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote:

> They are WASHABLE !
> K&N filters MUST be degreased and re-oiled every year at least or they will
> let tons of crap into your engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> "Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress" <dholtzNOSPAM@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:vXdTc.70277$6t1.25716@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Natman" <nat_mann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:411ce636.2030579@netnews.comcast.net...
> > > http://www.knfilterchargers.com/sear...px?Prod=E-0999
> > >
> > > I got a response to an email requesting this filter 9 years ago! I
> > > can't believe that K&N is finally releasing this filter, only 14 years
> > > after production of the 1st gen stopped.

> >
> > I need to change mine soon. Glad to see this. Now I hope I can find one
> > and afford it
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >

>
>

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2004, 10:57 am
Natman
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:14:32 GMT, "Stuart Gordon"
<sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote:

>They are WASHABLE !
>K&N filters MUST be degreased and re-oiled every year at least or they will
>let tons of crap into your engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm sorry, but that simply is not true. K&Ns are used in off road
racing where they see (and stop) more dirt than a street engine will
see in its entire life.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2004, 11:59 pm
Stuart Gordon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

Newgroups are a great source of misinformation, so here is something to
consider

The k&n filter is wire mesh with cotton element embedded across it. It is an
oil trap type filter so the actual pore size of the cotton is fairly large
but by giving it an oily coat the fine particulates will stick to the cotton
and create a filter bed as it collects more dirt. So the filter becomes more
effective as dirt builds up on the surface. Of course at some point it
becomes clogged and restricts air flow. The whole purpose of this filter is
to give you more air than the stock filter which will in turn give you more
power (doubtful). This is a trade off for allowing dirt in the engine for a
tiny increase in power or a cleaner engine and greater longitivity.

The standard air filter is a woven media that is pleated to increase
substantially the surface area of the filter. This allows for designing in
an absolute pore size in the material that is very small and still allowing
adequate air supply assisted by the pleating.

Abrasive material (also known as "dirt", "crud") that is sucked into the
engine will wear out the engine, both in the upper and lower end. Effective
air filtration and oil filtration determine the life of the car. My opinion
is that the goals of increased air flow for additional engine performance
and extending the life and reliability of the engine are somewhat
incompatible in this case.....the way the engine gets more air in this case
is by reducing the filtration capacity of the intake air filter. That lets
in more dirt....the mfgr. uses pleated filters to give large filtration area
and lots of protection and still allows for relatively hi rate of flow. The
pleated filter will not plug readily and pressure differential from indeed
to outfeed will remain constant for a long long time. A filter bed type
filter (like K & N) will tend to increase in pressure differential until it
becomes completely plugged (you would notice this as a loss in power, poor
mileage, poor idle and driveability). So it's "good" operating range is
narrow....new it lets in dirt, old it plugs up.

I took the K&N out of my Legend with no decrease in performance or gas
mileage. I have noticed when I change my oil, its cleaner with the OEM
filter that the K&N .... that's something to consider !

The oil you use on a K & N can ruin MAF sensors, but I think the Legend uses
MAP instead so may be less of a problem with oil contaminating sensors that
determine fuel/air ratios.

If you think a K&N filter is better, buy one, use it and enjoy it. Or why
not disconnect the complete Legend intake (very restrictive) and add a short
ram or cold air intake and even more air (and dirt ) into your motor ....


"David H." <upyoursspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:upyoursspam-48B4EC.15062019082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> bullshit - K&N recommends washing and degreasing every 50,000 to 100,000
> miles.
>
> In article <Il4Vc.456$NRf.258@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.roger s.com>,
> "Stuart Gordon" <sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> > They are WASHABLE !
> > K&N filters MUST be degreased and re-oiled every year at least or they

will
> > let tons of crap into your engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > "Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress" <dholtzNOSPAM@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:vXdTc.70277$6t1.25716@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Natman" <nat_mann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:411ce636.2030579@netnews.comcast.net...
> > > > http://www.knfilterchargers.com/sear...px?Prod=E-0999
> > > >
> > > > I got a response to an email requesting this filter 9 years ago! I
> > > > can't believe that K&N is finally releasing this filter, only 14

years
> > > > after production of the 1st gen stopped.
> > >
> > > I need to change mine soon. Glad to see this. Now I hope I can find

one
> > > and afford it
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >

> >
> >



Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 24 Aug 2004, 01:19 pm
Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

Stuart;

It would help this group if you were to quote a reputable source on air
filtration, or give us your professional credentials, before you make a post
like this.

Doug

"Stuart Gordon" <sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:_EAVc.66$vbN.40@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rog ers.com...
> Newgroups are a great source of misinformation, so here is something to
> consider
>
> The k&n filter is wire mesh with cotton element embedded across it. It is

an
> oil trap type filter so the actual pore size of the cotton is fairly large
> but by giving it an oily coat the fine particulates will stick to the

cotton
> and create a filter bed as it collects more dirt. So the filter becomes

more
> effective as dirt builds up on the surface. Of course at some point it
> becomes clogged and restricts air flow. The whole purpose of this filter

is
> to give you more air than the stock filter which will in turn give you

more
> power (doubtful). This is a trade off for allowing dirt in the engine for

a
> tiny increase in power or a cleaner engine and greater longitivity.
>
> The standard air filter is a woven media that is pleated to increase
> substantially the surface area of the filter. This allows for designing in
> an absolute pore size in the material that is very small and still

allowing
> adequate air supply assisted by the pleating.
>
> Abrasive material (also known as "dirt", "crud") that is sucked into the
> engine will wear out the engine, both in the upper and lower end.

Effective
> air filtration and oil filtration determine the life of the car. My

opinion
> is that the goals of increased air flow for additional engine performance
> and extending the life and reliability of the engine are somewhat
> incompatible in this case.....the way the engine gets more air in this

case
> is by reducing the filtration capacity of the intake air filter. That lets
> in more dirt....the mfgr. uses pleated filters to give large filtration

area
> and lots of protection and still allows for relatively hi rate of flow.

The
> pleated filter will not plug readily and pressure differential from indeed
> to outfeed will remain constant for a long long time. A filter bed type
> filter (like K & N) will tend to increase in pressure differential until

it
> becomes completely plugged (you would notice this as a loss in power, poor
> mileage, poor idle and driveability). So it's "good" operating range is
> narrow....new it lets in dirt, old it plugs up.
>
> I took the K&N out of my Legend with no decrease in performance or gas
> mileage. I have noticed when I change my oil, its cleaner with the OEM
> filter that the K&N .... that's something to consider !
>
> The oil you use on a K & N can ruin MAF sensors, but I think the Legend

uses
> MAP instead so may be less of a problem with oil contaminating sensors

that
> determine fuel/air ratios.
>
> If you think a K&N filter is better, buy one, use it and enjoy it. Or why
> not disconnect the complete Legend intake (very restrictive) and add a

short
> ram or cold air intake and even more air (and dirt ) into your motor ....
>
>
> "David H." <upyoursspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:upyoursspam-48B4EC.15062019082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > bullshit - K&N recommends washing and degreasing every 50,000 to 100,000
> > miles.
> >
> > In article <Il4Vc.456$NRf.258@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.roger s.com>,
> > "Stuart Gordon" <sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote:
> >
> > > They are WASHABLE !
> > > K&N filters MUST be degreased and re-oiled every year at least or they

> will
> > > let tons of crap into your engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > "Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress" <dholtzNOSPAM@wi.rr.com> wrote in

message
> > > news:vXdTc.70277$6t1.25716@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > >
> > > > "Natman" <nat_mann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:411ce636.2030579@netnews.comcast.net...
> > > > > http://www.knfilterchargers.com/sear...px?Prod=E-0999
> > > > >
> > > > > I got a response to an email requesting this filter 9 years ago! I
> > > > > can't believe that K&N is finally releasing this filter, only 14

> years
> > > > > after production of the 1st gen stopped.
> > > >
> > > > I need to change mine soon. Glad to see this. Now I hope I can

find
> one
> > > > and afford it
> > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

>
>



Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 24 Aug 2004, 10:27 pm
Stuart Gordon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

Doug ... don't you think if a $20 part (at manufactured cost) would increase
horsepower and improve filtration that the manufacturers would adopt it ?

Do you think the major manufacturers have a few more engineers on staff than
the folks at K&N ? Or perhaps the folks at K&N are just so damn smart that
the have figured out how to change one small part in the induction system
and as a result deliver better filtration and engine performance ?

FYI, every race car, both on track and off-road, are not built to go 150,000
miles, all they want is horsepower and will sacrifice filtration. They also
run more modifications than only a K&N filter to get the horsepower ...

What are my qualifications ? They are sufficient so ignore me at your own
risk.

"Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress" <dholtzNOSPAM@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:UDLWc.11094$sO2.3154@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Stuart;
>
> It would help this group if you were to quote a reputable source on air
> filtration, or give us your professional credentials, before you make a

post
> like this.
>
> Doug
>
> "Stuart Gordon" <sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:_EAVc.66$vbN.40@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rog ers.com...
> > Newgroups are a great source of misinformation, so here is something to
> > consider
> >
> > The k&n filter is wire mesh with cotton element embedded across it. It

is
> an
> > oil trap type filter so the actual pore size of the cotton is fairly

large
> > but by giving it an oily coat the fine particulates will stick to the

> cotton
> > and create a filter bed as it collects more dirt. So the filter becomes

> more
> > effective as dirt builds up on the surface. Of course at some point it
> > becomes clogged and restricts air flow. The whole purpose of this filter

> is
> > to give you more air than the stock filter which will in turn give you

> more
> > power (doubtful). This is a trade off for allowing dirt in the engine

for
> a
> > tiny increase in power or a cleaner engine and greater longitivity.
> >
> > The standard air filter is a woven media that is pleated to increase
> > substantially the surface area of the filter. This allows for designing

in
> > an absolute pore size in the material that is very small and still

> allowing
> > adequate air supply assisted by the pleating.
> >
> > Abrasive material (also known as "dirt", "crud") that is sucked into the
> > engine will wear out the engine, both in the upper and lower end.

> Effective
> > air filtration and oil filtration determine the life of the car. My

> opinion
> > is that the goals of increased air flow for additional engine

performance
> > and extending the life and reliability of the engine are somewhat
> > incompatible in this case.....the way the engine gets more air in this

> case
> > is by reducing the filtration capacity of the intake air filter. That

lets
> > in more dirt....the mfgr. uses pleated filters to give large filtration

> area
> > and lots of protection and still allows for relatively hi rate of flow.

> The
> > pleated filter will not plug readily and pressure differential from

indeed
> > to outfeed will remain constant for a long long time. A filter bed type
> > filter (like K & N) will tend to increase in pressure differential until

> it
> > becomes completely plugged (you would notice this as a loss in power,

poor
> > mileage, poor idle and driveability). So it's "good" operating range is
> > narrow....new it lets in dirt, old it plugs up.
> >
> > I took the K&N out of my Legend with no decrease in performance or gas
> > mileage. I have noticed when I change my oil, its cleaner with the OEM
> > filter that the K&N .... that's something to consider !
> >
> > The oil you use on a K & N can ruin MAF sensors, but I think the Legend

> uses
> > MAP instead so may be less of a problem with oil contaminating sensors

> that
> > determine fuel/air ratios.
> >
> > If you think a K&N filter is better, buy one, use it and enjoy it. Or

why
> > not disconnect the complete Legend intake (very restrictive) and add a

> short
> > ram or cold air intake and even more air (and dirt ) into your motor

.....
> >
> >
> > "David H." <upyoursspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:upyoursspam-48B4EC.15062019082004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > > bullshit - K&N recommends washing and degreasing every 50,000 to

100,000
> > > miles.
> > >
> > > In article <Il4Vc.456$NRf.258@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.roger s.com>,
> > > "Stuart Gordon" <sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > They are WASHABLE !
> > > > K&N filters MUST be degreased and re-oiled every year at least or

they
> > will
> > > > let tons of crap into your engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > "Doug Holtz NOSPAM in adress" <dholtzNOSPAM@wi.rr.com> wrote in

> message
> > > > news:vXdTc.70277$6t1.25716@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Natman" <nat_mann@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:411ce636.2030579@netnews.comcast.net...
> > > > > > http://www.knfilterchargers.com/sear...px?Prod=E-0999
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got a response to an email requesting this filter 9 years ago!

I
> > > > > > can't believe that K&N is finally releasing this filter, only 14

> > years
> > > > > > after production of the 1st gen stopped.
> > > > >
> > > > > I need to change mine soon. Glad to see this. Now I hope I can

> find
> > one
> > > > > and afford it
> > > > >
> > > > > Doug
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >

> >
> >

>
>



Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2004, 08:08 am
F2004: 12 of 13*
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 03:27:21 GMT, "Stuart Gordon"
<sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote:
>Doug ... don't you think if a $20 part (at manufactured cost) would increase
>horsepower and improve filtration that the manufacturers would adopt it ?
>
>Do you think the major manufacturers have a few more engineers on staff than
>the folks at K&N ? Or perhaps the folks at K&N are just so damn smart that
>the have figured out how to change one small part in the induction system
>and as a result deliver better filtration and engine performance ?
>
>FYI, every race car, both on track and off-road, are not built to go 150,000
>miles, all they want is horsepower and will sacrifice filtration. They also
>run more modifications than only a K&N filter to get the horsepower ...
>
>What are my qualifications ? They are sufficient so ignore me at your own
>risk.


So... Just your own unsubstantiated suspicions and untested theories,
along with a dose of conspiracy theories?

....That's helpful.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 25 Aug 2004, 04:40 pm
Stuart Gordon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: K&N filter for 1st Gen Legend

there is no conspiracy .... and you are welcome for the help ! Now its up
to you to decided.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

"F2004: 12 of 13*" <tifosoREM@OVEmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3t3pi01kju85ip2rcf67srocivsd19i4ig@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 03:27:21 GMT, "Stuart Gordon"
> <sgordon0533@rogers.com> wrote:
> >Doug ... don't you think if a $20 part (at manufactured cost) would

increase
> >horsepower and improve filtration that the manufacturers would adopt it ?
> >
> >Do you think the major manufacturers have a few more engineers on staff

than
> >the folks at K&N ? Or perhaps the folks at K&N are just so damn smart

that
> >the have figured out how to change one small part in the induction system
> >and as a result deliver better filtration and engine performance ?
> >
> >FYI, every race car, both on track and off-road, are not built to go

150,000
> >miles, all they want is horsepower and will sacrifice filtration. They

also
> >run more modifications than only a K&N filter to get the horsepower ...
> >
> >What are my qualifications ? They are sufficient so ignore me at your own
> >risk.

>
> So... Just your own unsubstantiated suspicions and untested theories,
> along with a dose of conspiracy theories?
>
> ...That's helpful.
>



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