Honda Car Forum

Gee whiz - I fell in love with this little speedster, even before I bought
one.

Made the deal at the dealer - got no 'deal' on the price, they knew I wanted
the car from the first words out of my mouth (don't get me wrong - I didn't
get screwed, but I didn't get lower than sticker...)

Then I started reading posts here about the the 6-speed transmission
problems, the dash and glove compartment rattles, clutch squeeks, scary tire
problems, etc.

What am I in for?

I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
track.

My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if you
drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.

Am I in outer space with my thinking?

Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?

ALL opinions welcome.

George

"George" <gmenzie@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vq3oh6k1ikmp11@corp.supernews.com...
> Gee whiz - I fell in love with this little speedster, even before I bought
> one.
>
> Made the deal at the dealer - got no 'deal' on the price, they knew I
wanted
> the car from the first words out of my mouth (don't get me wrong - I
didn't
> get screwed, but I didn't get lower than sticker...)
>
> Then I started reading posts here about the the 6-speed transmission
> problems, the dash and glove compartment rattles, clutch squeeks, scary
tire
> problems, etc.
>
> What am I in for?

My Type-S is a late 2002 model - after the transmission "fix" from the
factory. Yes, it can be a pain shifting into 2nd, especially if you drive
conservatively. When shifting quickly, I have never had an issue shifting
into 2nd gear. This appears to me to be a problem with the two piece vs.
three piece syncros. There can be issues with shifting into the lower three
gears when the transmission is cold. I have switched to Redline synthetic
MTL in the transmission, and it HAS helped with the shifting. In "spirited"
driving, I doubt you will notice any shifting problems at all - I don't!

One note - the RSX engine is an "interference" engine, if you rev
significantly beyond redline (miss shift from third to second at 85, say)
your valves and your pistons will become very close friends, at least until
the pistons break and the valves bend. Be careful with your shifts!!

I haven't had any squeaking issues, but my car is stock and only has 9.7K on
it so far. As for tires - Acura is continuing a pattern which they have
shown in the past on the Integras - make a somewhat heavy car, design it
with somewhat sporting suspension, and then... put TOURING tires on it!!
The problem with the tires (especially on the Type-S) is that they do not
match the sport mission of the car at all. Driven conservatively, they are
fine in the dry, barely adequate in the rain and miserable in the snow.
Driven in a "spirited" manner, they are greasy in the dry (break loose with
little feedback), scary in the rain, and miserable in the snow.

Fortunately, there are a lot of much better tires than the OEM ones out
there - and they are cheaper, too!

> I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
> 3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
> doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
> on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
> track.

Get new tires, if you can afford it. You will be amazed at the handling
difference just new rubber will make - especially with the rainy season
starting...

> My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if you
> drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.
>
> Am I in outer space with my thinking?
>
> Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?
>
> ALL opinions welcome.
>
> George

Shifting between 3000 and 4000 is nice for cruising, but if you want to
really feel the kick of the k20, then floor it until it hits 6500-7000 and
shift. This is a nice high-revving engine...

As for the tires, go and get a pair of kumho ecstas...they are EXCELLENT
tires.

"George" <gmenzie@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vq3oh6k1ikmp11@corp.supernews.com...
> Gee whiz - I fell in love with this little speedster, even before I bought
> one.
>
> Made the deal at the dealer - got no 'deal' on the price, they knew I
wanted
> the car from the first words out of my mouth (don't get me wrong - I
didn't
> get screwed, but I didn't get lower than sticker...)
>
> Then I started reading posts here about the the 6-speed transmission
> problems, the dash and glove compartment rattles, clutch squeeks, scary
tire
> problems, etc.
>
> What am I in for?
>
> I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
> 3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
> doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
> on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
> track.
>
> My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if you
> drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.
>
> Am I in outer space with my thinking?
>
> Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?
>
> ALL opinions welcome.
>
> George
>
>

OK. This is new one for me.

Is this engine 'really' designed to be wound out to 6500-7000 RPMs on a
regular basis? I see alot of younger Honda drivers do a big 'wind out',
which doesn't sound healthy, it sounds kind of tinny to me - like the
exhaust system isn't robust enough to give a solid throughput.

Yes, I'm a spirited driver, but I'm not Parnelli Jones. I just don't want to
blow up the engine. Is the design of this car accommodating to these
tolerances? I must admit that with a mere 3K on the block, I'm wondering if
developing 'slow RPM memory' will cause me to have a jerky 'pausing'
acceration in the future as the car matures.

Please - Experience needs to speak to me on this.

ALL feedback is appreciated!

George

"C N" <noll@hawaii.edu> wrote in message
news:zGmob.81078$ZH4.4703@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Shifting between 3000 and 4000 is nice for cruising, but if you want to
> really feel the kick of the k20, then floor it until it hits 6500-7000 and
> shift. This is a nice high-revving engine...
>
> As for the tires, go and get a pair of kumho ecstas...they are EXCELLENT
> tires.
>
> "George" <gmenzie@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:vq3oh6k1ikmp11@corp.supernews.com...
> > Gee whiz - I fell in love with this little speedster, even before I
bought
> > one.
> >
> > Made the deal at the dealer - got no 'deal' on the price, they knew I
> wanted
> > the car from the first words out of my mouth (don't get me wrong - I
> didn't
> > get screwed, but I didn't get lower than sticker...)
> >
> > Then I started reading posts here about the the 6-speed transmission
> > problems, the dash and glove compartment rattles, clutch squeeks, scary
> tire
> > problems, etc.
> >
> > What am I in for?
> >
> > I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
> > 3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
> > doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
> > on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
> > track.
> >
> > My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if
you
> > drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.
> >
> > Am I in outer space with my thinking?
> >
> > Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?
> >
> > ALL opinions welcome.
> >
> > George
> >
> >
>
>

George wrote:
> Gee whiz - I fell in love with this little speedster, even before I bought
> one.
>

I got a rsx-s 2002 with 50K miles, still plenty happy and fully
satisfied I bought it back then. (brand new)

This is not a normal car, I have warned several people about it, It is
more like a little formula car in disguise. If you like that type of
driving, you will never get tired of that car.

> Made the deal at the dealer - got no 'deal' on the price, they knew I wanted
> the car from the first words out of my mouth (don't get me wrong - I didn't
> get screwed, but I didn't get lower than sticker...)
>
I paid sticker too.

> Then I started reading posts here about the the 6-speed transmission
> problems, the dash and glove compartment rattles, clutch squeeks, scary tire
> problems, etc.
>
> What am I in for?
>

lots of fun... and apart from minor problems you mention car is amazing

> I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
> 3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
> doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
> on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
> track.
>

at 80 MPH, you should be shifting from 3rd to 4th gear.

3500-4000 rpm is definetly too low for shifting unless the car is cold.
I shift at minimum of 5000 when I am taking off slowly. 6000-7000 rpm is
appropriate to shift with this car. Just go to that rpm gradually so you
do not ruin you tires and the rest of the car...

Also keep in mind your valves do not fully open before 6000 rpm so if
you shift at 3500-4000 you should have bought the stock model. This car
has to be driven like a formula (i.e. high revs) to fully enjoy it. If
you don't; buy something with more lower end torque, you can get a
Mercedes Kompressor for the same price!!!

Also you get crunchy second gear when shifting at low rpm. Sychros do
not handle well low rpm shifting !!!

Plus, most critics say it is crazy to have such a hard suspension on a
street car, it is a track suspension and behaves poorly on bad road.

> My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if you
> drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.
>
I do not know about ruining it, but sure not enjoying it and spending
money for nothing.

Go ahead shift at least at 7000 rpm (I regularly shift at 8100 rpm) if
you want to feel the car!!


As I said before, go to that rpm gradually, do not floor the gas pedal
unless you need it ;-)

> Am I in outer space with my thinking?
>

Not at all, I think you fully start to realize what you bought, weather
you would have been better off with a Mercedes Kompressor, VW wolfberg
or SUBARU WRX will be up to you to determine. But I think you start to
get the picture right.

> Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?
>

You do not have to drive it hard (flooring gas pedal), I never spun my
tires once!! I never changed the brake pads at 50K miles!

But you sure have to REV it up (high rpm) to enjoy it fully.

Hope you will enjoy the car!

Also rotate you tires at every 5K miles, I waited too long and crashed
the car 2 months ago because I waited too long and my rear tires were
worn out too much compared to the front ones after tires rotation. The
car has a tendency to oversteer more than to understeer and it is the
lightest car in its category so be aware of the tail spinning.

About the crash, although I was going 70MPH I just slid on the grass
making a 360 like you sometimes see on tv, then I took off again after.
I had to align the wheels and that's it. The car had nothing wrong ;-)

-john

> ALL opinions welcome.
>
> George
>
>

john wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> Gee whiz - I fell in love with this little speedster, even before I

hey George, I forgot to tell you at 50K miles the rings seem to have
settled, it burns less oil, engine sound is different. It feels like it
just starts to open up ;-))

-john

George....I didn't mean rev it up that high every time you want to go from
point A to point B.
But almost all VTEC honda engines are high revving.
I would rev my 93 civic ex coupe to about 6500 - 7000 every couple days and
never had any problems with it.
Just care for the car like you normall would. Put some Mobil 1 synthetic oil
in it. I mean....vtec doesn't kick in until about 5500 RPM...so if you want
to make use of the powerband, don't shift until 6500-7200.
You can rev it that high just a little more than occasionally and you should
be fine. May I suggest going to Superhonda.com. IT's a msg forum that
teaches your everything you needed to know about hondas/acuras.

-hope this helped



"George" <gmenzie@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vq6b5asb88o5f9@corp.supernews.com...
> OK. This is new one for me.
>
> Is this engine 'really' designed to be wound out to 6500-7000 RPMs on a
> regular basis? I see alot of younger Honda drivers do a big 'wind out',
> which doesn't sound healthy, it sounds kind of tinny to me - like the
> exhaust system isn't robust enough to give a solid throughput.
>
> Yes, I'm a spirited driver, but I'm not Parnelli Jones. I just don't want
to
> blow up the engine. Is the design of this car accommodating to these
> tolerances? I must admit that with a mere 3K on the block, I'm wondering
if
> developing 'slow RPM memory' will cause me to have a jerky 'pausing'
> acceration in the future as the car matures.
>
> Please - Experience needs to speak to me on this.
>
> ALL feedback is appreciated!
>
> George
>
> "C N" <noll@hawaii.edu> wrote in message
> news:zGmob.81078$ZH4.4703@twister.socal.rr.com...
> > Shifting between 3000 and 4000 is nice for cruising, but if you want to
> > really feel the kick of the k20, then floor it until it hits 6500-7000
and
> > shift. This is a nice high-revving engine...
> >
> > As for the tires, go and get a pair of kumho ecstas...they are EXCELLENT
> > tires.
> >
> > "George" <gmenzie@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:vq3oh6k1ikmp11@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Gee whiz - I fell in love with this little speedster, even before I
> bought
> > > one.
> > >
> > > Made the deal at the dealer - got no 'deal' on the price, they knew I
> > wanted
> > > the car from the first words out of my mouth (don't get me wrong - I
> > didn't
> > > get screwed, but I didn't get lower than sticker...)
> > >
> > > Then I started reading posts here about the the 6-speed transmission
> > > problems, the dash and glove compartment rattles, clutch squeeks,
scary
> > tire
> > > problems, etc.
> > >
> > > What am I in for?
> > >
> > > I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
> > > 3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
> > > doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of
freeway
> > > on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
> > > track.
> > >
> > > My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if
> you
> > > drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.
> > >
> > > Am I in outer space with my thinking?
> > >
> > > Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?
> > >
> > > ALL opinions welcome.
> > >
> > > George
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:16:34 -0800, "George" <gmenzie@charter.net>
wrote:
>I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
>3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
>doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
>on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
>track.

I wouldn't want to be your insurance agent.

(nor my own, when I was sixteen, but both me and my (parents') cars
made it through ... somehow)

>My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if you
>drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.

Naw. Modern technology mostly prevents the kind of gunking up that
would affect ancient, high-performance engines at slow speeds.

>Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?

An interesting question, to which I do not know the answer.

Others have pointed out you have to rev and shift higher than I guess
you've been, to get it into performance mode, but then, in typical
urban environments, just what is that going to get you, besides dead?

Back in the day, I had an Alfa Romeo with 100 gigantic horsepower, and
you could shift that optimally and run it to redline every time, foot
to the floor, and nobody would ever know! My 87 Accord had the same
power to weight, but the engine didn't really like going to redline,
and frankly it had better ride and handling than the Alfa. Driving a
99 CL, I probably move faster point-to-point, even with the blubbery
automatic trans and smog controls. The handling is miles better --
though it creaks when I try tossing it around in ways the Alfa didn't
mind at all. But I'm an old fart now, so I don't do that much. Also,
the Alfa ate a valve at 92k miles, which mostly won't happen with
modern Honda products ... though, if you drive them hard, well I
dunno.

I wonder if the stock NSX and S2000 will stand up to usage that the
RSX and other Honda/Acura products will not, but I don't know either
side of the equation.

J.

Hey, thanks for responding.

I really enjoyed John's posts and now yours - which comes with additional
wisdom. I did note to John off-list that I'm actually a pretty careful
driver.

One thought that does have me a little concerned about the high rev shifting
is that unless I'm on the freeway, it isn't practical.

I tried a little of it yesterday around town (I'm holed up in the house
today) and the effect was that if I continue to high rev and shift that
way, I'm probably going to get a ticket. The streets of my town are not high
wide and handsome (like Las Vegas, for example) - but even at 5K RPM's in
first gear (with the car doing 40), I'm making a considerable statement if
not an unusual racket. Others notice, and in not too complimentary a
fashion.

Interesting. I'll have to work all this out. Anyway, I still love the car.
It's nimble as heck and an absolute riot to drive!

George


"JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
news:ajoaqvk2o53scm7elsas9n2n8bg5ej92b5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:16:34 -0800, "George" <gmenzie@charter.net>
> wrote:
> >I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
> >3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
> >doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
> >on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
> >track.
>
> I wouldn't want to be your insurance agent.
>
> (nor my own, when I was sixteen, but both me and my (parents') cars
> made it through ... somehow)
>
> >My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if you
> >drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.
>
> Naw. Modern technology mostly prevents the kind of gunking up that
> would affect ancient, high-performance engines at slow speeds.
>
> >Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?
>
> An interesting question, to which I do not know the answer.
>
> Others have pointed out you have to rev and shift higher than I guess
> you've been, to get it into performance mode, but then, in typical
> urban environments, just what is that going to get you, besides dead?
>
> Back in the day, I had an Alfa Romeo with 100 gigantic horsepower, and
> you could shift that optimally and run it to redline every time, foot
> to the floor, and nobody would ever know! My 87 Accord had the same
> power to weight, but the engine didn't really like going to redline,
> and frankly it had better ride and handling than the Alfa. Driving a
> 99 CL, I probably move faster point-to-point, even with the blubbery
> automatic trans and smog controls. The handling is miles better --
> though it creaks when I try tossing it around in ways the Alfa didn't
> mind at all. But I'm an old fart now, so I don't do that much. Also,
> the Alfa ate a valve at 92k miles, which mostly won't happen with
> modern Honda products ... though, if you drive them hard, well I
> dunno.
>
> I wonder if the stock NSX and S2000 will stand up to usage that the
> RSX and other Honda/Acura products will not, but I don't know either
> side of the equation.
>
> J.
>
>

George wrote:
> Hey, thanks for responding.
>
> I really enjoyed John's posts and now yours - which comes with additional
> wisdom. I did note to John off-list that I'm actually a pretty careful
> driver.

Sorry George, I did not get your message, I have fixed my email and the
address attached to this message is valid. I changed it because I was
getting too much spam at the other one.

I am a careful driver too, I hate driving in city traffic, especially
with my rsx-s. In city traffic, I behave mostly like Joe Citizen as a
driver. There is too much to plan for and look for (from other drivers)
to drive stupidly when there is other average drivers around.

Car is a lot better on the freeway like you mention. Remember I said it
was a race track car more than an average street car? Well, race track
cars behave better on freeways with a nice pavement.

>
> One thought that does have me a little concerned about the high rev shifting
> is that unless I'm on the freeway, it isn't practical.

In heavy city traffic, I manage to shift into second at low rpm by
double-clutching and playing with gas pedal to avoid crunchy second
gear. But as I said before, the car is definetly not the greatest city
commuter car ;-)


>
> I tried a little of it yesterday around town (I'm holed up in the house
> today) and the effect was that if I continue to high rev and shift that
> way, I'm probably going to get a ticket. The streets of my town are not high
> wide and handsome (like Las Vegas, for example) - but even at 5K RPM's in
> first gear (with the car doing 40), I'm making a considerable statement if
> not an unusual racket. Others notice, and in not too complimentary a
> fashion.

hehehe I shift at lower rpm when I am in quiet neighborhoods ;-))


>
> Interesting. I'll have to work all this out. Anyway, I still love the car.
> It's nimble as heck and an absolute riot to drive!
>

I do want to be rude, but did you look at other cars with lower revving
engine and more torque like the ones I mentionned in my previous post
before buying the rsx-s. What made you choose the rsx-s?

Oh, one more warning note, as another poster mentionned somewhere, your
engine is an interference engine, document yourself about it and about
the cost of mishifting and brigging the engine to 10,000 rpm for example.

Once you understand that, try this; when going 55 mph on a nice open
freeway, downshift into 3rd and bring it to 75 mph. This is what I call
"feeling" the car. Once 75 mph is reached, just upshift in 5th or 6th.

Once you have reached cruising speed there is no point into revving up
anymore. Nevertheless, on long trips I downshift into 5th when going
uphill. Somethimes I will cruise at 55-65 mph in 4th gear in tight
higway traffic so I have more power ready should I need to accelerate
quickly to avoid a collision. It also gives me the ability to slow down
more quickly (engine compreesion kicks in before you hit the brakes)

To try it more, you should go on a track!

-john


> George
>
>
> "JXStern" <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:ajoaqvk2o53scm7elsas9n2n8bg5ej92b5@4ax.com...
>
>>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:16:34 -0800, "George" <gmenzie@charter.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I drive the car as I believe it was designed to be driven. I shift at
>>>3500-4000 RPM's, weave in and out of traffic (carefully, but as if the
>>>doddards in the other cars are merely pylons), hit the bottom of freeway
>>>on-ramps at 80 MPH and accelerate into every turn, as if I were on the
>>>track.
>>
>>I wouldn't want to be your insurance agent.
>>
>>(nor my own, when I was sixteen, but both me and my (parents') cars
>>made it through ... somehow)
>>
>>
>>>My inclination, after just a few months of driving the RSX is that if you
>>>drive it carefully, conservatively, and slowly, you will ruin it.
>>
>>Naw. Modern technology mostly prevents the kind of gunking up that
>>would affect ancient, high-performance engines at slow speeds.
>>
>>
>>>Was this little power house designed to be driven hard, or not?
>>
>>An interesting question, to which I do not know the answer.
>>
>>Others have pointed out you have to rev and shift higher than I guess
>>you've been, to get it into performance mode, but then, in typical
>>urban environments, just what is that going to get you, besides dead?
>>
>>Back in the day, I had an Alfa Romeo with 100 gigantic horsepower, and
>>you could shift that optimally and run it to redline every time, foot
>>to the floor, and nobody would ever know! My 87 Accord had the same
>>power to weight, but the engine didn't really like going to redline,
>>and frankly it had better ride and handling than the Alfa. Driving a
>>99 CL, I probably move faster point-to-point, even with the blubbery
>>automatic trans and smog controls. The handling is miles better --
>>though it creaks when I try tossing it around in ways the Alfa didn't
>>mind at all. But I'm an old fart now, so I don't do that much. Also,
>>the Alfa ate a valve at 92k miles, which mostly won't happen with
>>modern Honda products ... though, if you drive them hard, well I
>>dunno.
>>
>>I wonder if the stock NSX and S2000 will stand up to usage that the
>>RSX and other Honda/Acura products will not, but I don't know either
>>side of the equation.
>>
>>J.
>>
>>
>
>
>