Honda Car Forum


 

Go Back   Honda Car Forum - Accord Parts Civic Tuning Acura Racing > Discussion > Acura Technical

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2010, 11:31 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9
Default Acura rsx type S or Hyundai Genesis 2.0t? Which is faster?

Acura rsx type s has















Power bhp (kW) at RPM:210 / 7800















Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM:143 / 7000































Hyundai genesis 2.0t has















Power (SAE net): 210 bhp @ 6000 rpm















Torque (SAE net): 223 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm































which is faster? does the horsepower show which is faster, or is it the torque? what is torque anyway? and why is the hyundai genesis' torque @ 2000 rpm, isnt that really low?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 22 May 2010, 11:46 pm
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 40
Default

..such a newbie. horsepower you brag about/gets you speed. torque is what you feel/wins races































judging by the stats the genesis will just bitch slap the rsx. and torque is what moves the car. also i like that fact that a inline 4 import has some balls down low.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2010, 12:01 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 241
Default

t-14 doesnt know how basic engine theory works. he's stated before that a 210 hp mustang can outrun a 350 HP integra (the mustang's only being able to rev to about 6k RPMs while the integra can rev to atelast 8500, and the mustang weighing 800 pounds more than the integra). but some people just gotta lie to themselves because they have a bad case of foot-mouth...















torque isnt what wins races. torque is what gets you moving, horsepower is what gets you moving fast.















horsepower is the kinetic measurement of torque x RPM / 5252. why 5252? because thats what the automotive world decided was a good number. the important part is the torque x rpm. the higher the RPMs, the faster a car will accelerate. think of it this way (if you lift weights): can you lift more weight if you lift very slowly, or very fast? very fast ofcourse, because you have more momentum on your side. this is what HP esentially is.















HP is also a direct representation of the torque curve. you can reverse the formula to see at what RPM the car starts to lose significant amount of torque, or what the torque is at specific RPMs. what this means, is that the acura RSX can make good tq 1800 RPMs longer than the hyundai can.















an important thing to also look at when it comes to acceleration is gear ratios.















anyway you're comparing a turbo'd car to a NA one. it would be a better comparison to eitehr compare the non turboed version ofthe genesis or to find a turbocharged rsx.































now to your question:















a 2010 hyundai genesis 2.0T has a quarter mile time of 15.2 @ 90.3MPH (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...st/index.html)















a RSX-S has a quarter mile time of 14.9 @ 95MPH. (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/.../specs_page_2)































with numbers this close, it will boil down to the driver.































so again, t-14 is quite wrong. whats the reason for the car with less tq being faster?















for one, its weight- acura is 2848 lb, hyundai is 3,389 lb















secondly, its the gear ratios:















the acuras are: 1st Gear - 3.267 2nd Gear - 2.130 3rd Gear - 1.517 4th Gear - 1.147 5th Gear - 0.921 6th Gear - 0.738 Reverse - 3.583 Final Drive - 4.765















the genesis are: # First Gear Ratio (:1): 4.23















# Second Gear Ratio (:1): 2.47















# Third Gear Ratio (:1): 1.67















# Fourth Gear Ratio (:1): 1.23















# Fifth Gear Ratio (:1): 1.00















# Sixth Gear Ratio (:1): 0.79















# Reverse Ratio (:1): 3.99















# Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1): 3.91















notice teh shorter gear ratios in the RSX after 3rd gear? this car will accelerate much faster after 3rd gear than the genesis will.















also, look at the max torque on both vehicles. maxing out your tq at 2000 rpm means that its all downhill from there, and that the genesis' tq severely drops off after 6k. the RSX on the other hand is gaining tq all the way up to 7000 RPM. so when its running at high rpms (6k-redline) its going to have MUCH more tq than the hyndai will have at its "high RPMs" meaning about 5000-redline.















finally, the rsx is NA while the genesis is turbo. turbo'd cars make much less hp/tq while their turbo is not engaged.































@ sean: both magazines used professional drivers, and they clearly showed waht is the superior car: which just happened to be the RSX-S (its a sad day when an i4 turbo loses to a i4 NA...talks loads about how poorly hyundai makes their vehicles and how well honda/acura does). btw the ONLY time that rear wheel drive out performs front wheel is when it comes to launching. thats it. a front wheel drive vehicle can easily take turns at speeds taht would cause your mustang to go flying off the track. as for the mustang that runs a full second faster, thats the gt which is a v8...so you're telling me that a mustang is a performance car because it has twice the displacement of the rsx and is only 1 second faster? yeah, ok, whatever you say. btw the 5th gen stock model mustang, the 210 hp v6, does the 1/4 in 17.3. 2 cylinders more than the rsx-s, a full liter more displacement, and almost 3 seconds slower. thats some REAL performance there, ford definately knows how to make a car... well, make a POS car atleast...































as for the top speed: actually the RSX-S is faster if you're talking stock models, since its top speed is electrically limited to 140 MPH and the hynudai's is limited to 137.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2010, 12:16 am
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 60
Default

according to the numbers, the Acura RSX Type S has the advantage. next is the Weight. again the RSX has the advantage. high RPM again the RSX, Gear ratios, RSX, better aerodynamics? the RSX again,its considered one of the best aerodynamic structures of all time, chosen for top speed challenges.what the Hyundai has in great advantage is Forced induction (turbo) that's how companies get easy power from their cars, now for the RSX to be N/A you can easily say it has been incredibly engineered. making all that power Naturally aspirated. it has the K series engine which are the best FWD N/A 4cyl. engines in the world. as you can see its not all about the numbers but even in that















the RSX Type S is the Superior Car.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2010, 12:31 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 481
Default

What everyone else here fails to realize is, that you said FASTER, not QUICKER. Quicker denotes acceleration, while faster indicates top speed. Also, HP is Torque, by the very definition. Torque is the amount of twisting force the crankshaft of the engine has. Basically, if you spun the engine at 2000rpm, it would take 223lbs of weight, 1 foot away from the center of the crank, to stop the engine from accelerating (in basic terms). No, 2000rpm isn't really low for torque, because a high initial torque means the car will get moving easier. As for which one is quicker, it depends. If you use magazine times, the Acura is slightly quicker. In practice, the Genesis has far more potential than the Acura, simply because the Acura is front wheel drive. Anyone who has the slightest clue about the physics of forces that apply to a car, knows that front wheel drive is the worst possible platform for performance. Also, driver plays a part. An average driver will be able to run a better time in the Genesis than in the Acura, compared to stock times, simply due to the rear wheel drive. Another thing, gears are altered to reflect the powerband of the engine. My mustang only revs to 7000rpm, has the following gearing: 3.27 1st, 2.13 2nd 1.66 3rd, 1.00 4th 0.69 5th with a 3.27 final, and a curb weight of 3395lbs. Which do you suppose is faster, the Acura which revs higher and has shorter gears, or the mustang? The answer is the mustang is. By a lot. By over 1 full second, in fact. But how, the mustang only hits peak HP at 5800rpm? Because it makes over 300ft-lb and over 300hp. I assure you that the Genesis would be quicker to 60 foot, but the Acura might catch up after that.































EDIT:















In response to VTEC141, he fails to realize 1 thing: It's torque to the wheels that determines who has the better gear ratios. What's good for an RSX, isn't necessarily good for another car with torque. I can assure you my mustang would go nowhere with RSX gearing. It's very application dependent. If you want an idea of how the power crosses for the two cars, without dyno sheets, compare the peak TQ and HP for both peaks.















RSX Type S 2006=201hp and 135ft-lb at 7800rpm, and 145ft-lb and 193hp at 7000rpm.















Genesis 2.0T=210hp and 184ft-lb at 6000rpm, and 223ft-lb and 85hp at 2000rpm.















Gathered from that alone, the Hyundai has a wider powerband, making over 175ft-lb from 2000rpm (and lower, actually) on up to 6000rpm+. The RSX-S never makes 175ft-lb.































Now, if we take the closest RPMs for both cars, 184ft-lb@6000 for the Hyundai, and 145ft-lb@7000 for the Acura, and compare gears, and since gears multiply torque, here's what we see:















Hyundai Acura















1st 3043 2257















2nd 1777 1472















3rd 1201 1048















4th 885 792















5th 719 636















6th 568 510































What do these show? Those are the actual torque applied to the drive wheels at the RPM's I mentioned, based on the torque numbers previously calculated. As you can see, the Acura is behind in every gear, so really, the Hyundai's transmission is geared better for its engine than the Acura is.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 23 May 2010, 12:46 am
Ted Ted is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
Default

If torque won the drag race then every american car from the 70s would clean house. They didn't. Why? Their HP ratings were about half what the torque was. Weight is the other factor of course. The Acura here is 400 lbs lighter with the same 210 horse as the Hyundai. The RSX will win.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What car is faster? a 2001 honda prelude type SH or a 2002 Acura rsx type S? Carter K Acura Technical 4 08 May 2010 12:31 am
wat car is faster the acura rsx type s or the Mitsubishi eclipse gsx? twisted Acura Technical 6 11 Feb 2009 10:31 pm
excuse my ignorance but which car is faster integra Type R or acura rsx type S? ferdi Acura Technical 7 04 Dec 2008 06:16 pm
Whats faster? A 2006 acura rsx non type s or a celica? josephine Acura Technical 5 04 Jun 2008 01:46 am
04 Accord EX V6 Coupe Vs. 04 Hyundai Tiburon V6 Vs. 04 Acura RSX Type S krishna Honda 3 1 12 Jan 2004 11:59 am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 am.


Attribution:
Honda News | Autoblog
Powered by Yahoo Answers




Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
HondaCarForum.com is not affiliated with Honda Motor Company in any way. Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse HondaCarForum.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.