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Old 01 Apr 2004, 07:20 am
George Macdonald
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Default Re: Honda Quality Nosediving

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:26:21 -0500, Pars <"sdaro(remove)"@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
>George Macdonald wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:47:01 -0500, Pars <"sdaro(remove)"@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The quality gaps between manufactures are tightening up. Honda does make
>> >one of the best 4 banger engine in the market (and considering gas prices,
>> >it's perhaps the most important engine design). However, since other
>> >manufactures are also beginning to produce decent 4 banger engines, the
>> >real fight will be in chassis design and Toyota is ahead of the game in
>> >that department. Something like the Lotus Elise is too expensive for the
>> >mainstream market, but the Celica comes close.

>>
>> Toyota "ahead of the game" in suspension? They're McCheapstrut is well
>> known for blowing the shocks in the latter half of the 1st 100K miles. IMO
>> the Accord is one of the best mid-size sedan suspensions in the business
>> with excellent handling and low-wear characteristics.

>
>In my last post, I said 'chassis', not 'suspension'... Granted Accord's
>suspension is one of the best out their. Only the best handling cars tend to have
>the double wishbone up front. I personally think the double wishbone is a 'most
>have' on a front drive car.


Oops sorry, I always tend to think of the suspension as part, the active
part, of a chassis. So by superior, you mean weight for weight, stiffer
frame? S'funny but as I've looked at Integra write-ups over the years --
I've owned all 3 models but am currently balking on the latest(RSX in US)
-- they've always made much of the "improved stiffer chassis/frame"; it
always makes me wonder how they got it so F/U in the previous model.:-)

>Regarding the McCheapstrut, both the Celica and Civic have the same cheap crap
>suspension in the front. Even with the inferior suspension design, the Celica has
>still manage to become on the most sporty front drives on the market while the
>Civic is a reliable point A to B commuter. The reason that the McCheapstrut works
>on the Celica is do to it's extremely light but strong body/chassis which
>compensates for the inferior suspension components. It's too bad that Honda has
>to fatten the Civic by about 300lb in order to match the kind of handling found
>in the much lighter Celica.


I think I'd compare the Celica with the RSX rather than the bread 'n'
butter Civic - maybe the Civic Si? Is it the RSX you're referring to with
the 300lb of fat? The RSX has supposedly beefed up suspension mount points
and other stiffening to the frame, compared with the Civic. I haven't
looked at a Celica recently but a coupla years back it seemed to me that to
get similar features/equipment to an Integra I'd have had to add a few $K
of options - possibly that's part of the weight difference.

From what I hear, based on competitive analysis by others, as far as
chassis and especially suspension geometry, Mazda is ahead of everybody at
the moment with the 3s and 6s.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
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