Re: oil change interval on CRV
On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 21:45:00 -0400, sam <innomid@worldlynx.net> wrote:
>George McD:
>
>I read the below attached,as well as the posting on the Audi World Forum
>which you presented as a link, with interest. I changed the oil on my 03
>Honda Element at 2300 or so miles, even though the manual said 10K for
>the first change. I got conflicting advice from Honda dealership
>personnel, including, "there is no break -in oil in use any more by
>Honda". No matter who I asked and where I looked I was unable to find
>any specifics or any conclusive technical discussion, including in the
>Manual, which did not "educate" as to a break in oil, but just made the
>statemnent that the oil should be left in for 10K. I would have found
>it helpful and persuasive if I had been told, by Honda somewhere, that
>there is a special oil in use, what it does, what the too early dumping
>of it might do, if putting such oil back in later could compensate for
>or correct any of the improper breaking in that might have taken place,
>etc. Ie., the point by Don on AudiWorld that we should not second
>guess the engineers is a good point, but this point would have been
>stronger if the engineers had presented an explanation that accompannied
>their proscription, in the manual. Surely they must know how much fable
>and fiction and misinformation exists regarding this topic.
>I come from an era where a 1000 mile oil change was not excessive; I
>also had a mechanical engineer for a father, one who wanted to
>understand the underlying chemistry and physics, and was not content
>with pat rules and proscriptions.
I know what you mean about wanting to know the whys and hows, rather than
taking advice "blindly". If you register and login at the Honda Owner Link
Web site, at this page
<http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp?faq=oil>, you'll
see the following:
"Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Acura engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated
for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns
and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine
long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first
maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your
specific driving conditions."
I wish there was more on the details but it does correspond with what Randy
Hubbard says, quoted by Don, in the Audiworld msg and he has credentials
which I'm willing to accept. We also know that with new advanced CNC
systems for the mfr of pistons, sleeves, rings etc. the parts in a modern
engine are much better finished at installation.
>Assuming Honda will now sell me "break-in oil", is there any point in
>putting it in, at 14000 miles???
I'd think not. It's my impression that the presence of the "minute
particles" is important in the developing wear patterns. OTOH I don't
think you should be too worried... remembering that conventional thinking
used to be that one should do the initial change at 500miles or so.
The way I read things is that you should do the inital change at the
interval defined according to the schedule expected over the future life of
the car. IOW if your driving profile fits the "normal" pattern, which I
think is fairly unusual, at 10K miles; if you fit the severe schedule, then
at 5K(?) miles or so. Also remember that the 10K schedule is recent and
for many people, quite controversial; just a couple of years back, Honda
was recommending 7.5K and 3750 as the normal and severe schedules.
>
>George Macdonald wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:35:53 GMT, "Kenneth J. Harris"
>> <kharris@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>--------------030003000205080904020607
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>
>>>Hi!
>>> This is for babadi and those who replied to him. As someone who
>>>has been involved with cars and engines of different types for a long
>>>time, including our current 2003 Accord, here is my opinion: Accepting
>>>the validity of the factory recommended initial oil change period on new
>>>engines(the factory installed oil does indeed have some extra
>>>additives), no engine ever wore out or developed problems prematurely
>>>because of too frequent oil changes.
>>
>>
>> Depends what you mean by wear out - they *may* develop other problems, like
>> high oil consumption due to leaky rings which were never bedded in
>> properly. Honda is not alone here with their "special" break-in oil and
>> the results of ignoring their recommendations *are* known. See here:
>> <http://forums.audiworld.com/tt/msgs/65043.phtml>
>>
>>> There is however, lots of evidence
>>>that when the oil/filter is not changed often enough, problems will
>>>occur. This applies to all engines--automotive general use, automotive
>>>racing, boat engines, aircraft engines(piston type), truck engines,
>>>industrial engines, lawn mower engines, etc. etc. Why a given car
>>>manufacturer would specify a long oil change interval after the break in
>>>period is over is something I don't care to comment on here, but you
>>>might want to think about why they would do that.
>>
>>
>> Things change!
>>
>>
>>>babadi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Greetings,
>>>>
>>>>What would be an appropriate interval at which to change the oil on a 2003
>>>>CRV? It has just over 3000 miles at this point, and a friend suggested
>>>>doing it now, even though the manual says it should be done only after
>>>>5000-10,000 miles (depending on the "severity" of your driving.) Most of my
>>>>driving is on congested suburban streets and highways.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--------------030003000205080904020607
>>>Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>
>>><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>>><html>
>>><head>
>>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
>>> <title></title>
>>></head>
>>><body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
>>>Hi!<br>
>>> This is for babadi and those who replied to him. As someone who
>>>has been involved with cars and engines of different types for a long
>>>time, including our current 2003 Accord, here is my opinion: Accepting
>>>the validity of the factory recommended initial oil change period on
>>>new engines(the factory installed oil does indeed have some extra
>>>additives), no engine ever wore out or developed problems prematurely
>>>because of <b>too frequent</b> oil changes. There is however, lots of
>>>evidence that when the oil/filter is<b> not changed often enough</b>,
>>>problems will occur. This applies to all engines--automotive general
>>>use, automotive racing, boat engines, aircraft engines(piston type),
>>>truck engines, industrial engines, lawn mower engines, etc. etc. Why a
>>>given car manufacturer would specify a long oil change interval after
>>>the break in period is over is something I don't care to comment on
>>>here, but you might want to think about why they would do that.<br>
>>><br>
>>>Ken<br>
>>><br>
>>>babadi wrote:<br>
>>><blockquote type="cite"
>>>cite="midXns93E47FBC42A54martinREMOVETOREPLYg@1 67.206.3.3">
>>> <pre wrap="">Greetings,
>>>
>>>What would be an appropriate interval at which to change the oil on a 2003
>>>CRV? It has just over 3000 miles at this point, and a friend suggested
>>>doing it now, even though the manual says it should be done only after
>>>5000-10,000 miles (depending on the "severity" of your driving.) Most of my
>>>driving is on congested suburban streets and highways.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>> </pre>
>>></blockquote>
>>></body>
>>></html>
>>>
>>>--------------030003000205080904020607--
>>>
>>
>>
>> Rgds, George Macdonald
>>
>> "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
>
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
|