On 28 Jul 2003 19:46:29 -0700, brorjace@hotmail.com (Bror Jace) wrote:

>fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com (George Macdonald) wrote in message news:<3f24c261.75946917@news.tellurian.com>...
>
>> It's not the seal that got destroyed - it's the bearing cage and it wasn't
>> clear if it suffered due to solvency of the plastic in the oil or if it got
>> worn away by abrasion. It's completely gone though - all eight balls are
>> jammed against each other in the bad bearing.
>
>Was there a big difference between the 5th and 6th generation Civic
>5-speeds? My '95 Coupe went 132,000 miles (122,000 miles on MTL)
>without a single tranny-related problem. If solvency WAS an issue, it
>surely would have reared its ugly head in my car as I ran it much,
>much longer.

I didn't say it was solvency. Even if it was then I'd indict RedLine
before Hionda on the subject of testing and warnings... given your later
remarks about Honda MTF.

>> The Honda MTF works fine for me.
>
>I've never tried the stuff. A virgin oil analysis on it shows it to be
>a fairly ordinary-looking fluid. No special anti-wear (moly,
>borate-esters, etc ...) just a good dose of what looks like ZDDP ...
>in quantities motor oils used to have the stuff.

I'm not sure how a lubricant/fluid arrives at being characterized as
"ordinary-looking"... nor what the "analysis" actually examined.
Borate-esters would appear to be something I would not expect to find in
Honda MTF, given that they are currently being test marketed by the
additive mfrs - maybe something I'd want nothing to do with until that
testing is done. Obviously ZDDP works well and has for years and of
course, there's no catalytic converter in a gear box - in fact if ZDDP had
not been blacklisted by the auto mfrs we'd probably still be using it in
our engines and MoDTC would be an obscure chemical.

The Honda Australia site used to show the "Honda MTF" with the mention that
it was a 75W/80 API gear lubricant - not even sure if it'd be the same
stuff - but it was not rated as EP so I'd expect a modest (non-extreme)
friction modifier content.

>I just know that MTL (70W80) was a vast improvement over the factory
>fill in both my '90 Integra as well as the '95 Civic. Who knows what
>they put in the trannies back then at the factory?
>
>What I like most about the Red Line fluids is their cold-shift
>capabilities. Dead-of-winter graunch is greatly eliminated. In fact, I
>have to get rid of the crappy factory gear oil in my Sentra Spec-V's
>6-speed before this coming winter. The tranny is full of graunch at
>any temp under 40F until it's thoroughly warm. I have to shift very s
>l o w l y and c a r e f u l l y until the car is well warmed up to
>keep from grinding. I figure MT-90 (75W90) will be a significant
>improvement ... and it's the most popular fluid with other Spec
>drivers.

Yes with Honda MTF, you *do* have to shift gently in low temps - not for
long though - but I expect that Honda is quite sure that it is not
incompatible with the metallurgy of their gearbox components.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??