"Tony Muller" <tonymullerREMOVE@earthlink.net> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Not an expert, but I do have direct experience with the main relay (once
> > replaced), ignitor (replaced once at failure; a second time pre-emptively),
> > and
> > the coil (replaced a few times, due to not using OEM).
> >
> > Deduction leads me to believe the most likely causes of the no-start, in
> > order,
> > are as follows:
> >
> > 1.
> > An improperly repaired main relay.
> >
> > Here's what I get with my completely functional 1991 Civic LX's noises and
> > dash
> > lights as I turn the key from position I to II. The top left, yellow-orange
> > "Check" light comes on and at the same time, I hear a dull humming noise
from
> > I
> > think the left rear of the car. I think that's the fuel pump motor. When the
> > "Check" light goes out, the humming stops.
> >
> > So are you positive you're not getting this noise with the "Check" light?
>
>
> Well... the lights are all like you describe. However, the humming noise
> WAS there, and this morning, it wasn't. So now I'm back to suspecting
> the Relay. Could a fuel pump work intermittently? Seems like it would or
> wouldn't?? It NEVER was a problem once it started and was running.

Electrical connections (of various types) that are failing often work
intermittently for some time before full failure, as you're probably aware. Thus
I like the direction in which John Ings is sending you: Checking certain fuel
pump motor electrical wiring back to the source, etc.

> > How confident are you that you got the old solder off and properly
> > re-soldered?
> > How confident are you of the electrical checks the Haynes manual prescribes?
>
> I'm reasonably sure that the solder job is OK. (But the stopping of the
> fuel pump 'humming' has me suspicious of my own work) :-)
>
> As for the testing, I'm pretty sure it's a proper test. Actually, I can
> hear the "click" as I apply 12V to the prescribed contracts, then I get
> continuity between the proper contacts (at least as described in the
> Haynes manual). Between the "click" noise and the meter readings, I'm
> _fairly_ sure it's OK. OTOH, I read another post (from a year or two
> back) where someone had a relay that _tested_ OK, but did NOT function
> properly IN the car.

Yes, I saw one post that said this, too.

> Not quite sure how THAT works, but I guess it
> happened, and could certainly happen to ME. Anyone have any ideas on
> this?? Could be heat, I suppose, but I tried it first thing this morning
> and it was probably 70 or so (cool) in the car.

I too am wondering about the mechanism here. The relay passes the bench test,
then fails the "in location" test?

If the problem is the relay, something is perhaps somehow different from bench
to car. (Perhaps not.)

It doesn't seem to take much to loosen/tighten those relay solder joints.
There's a couple of guys at the newsgroup who regularly say that, when one
suspects the relay's solder joints, one should hit the dash near the relay, and
the car will re-start. No one has ever challenged them on this.

Maybe just opening and closing the car door is having the same effect?

snip
> I did get a reply from John. Per his suggestion, I'm going to check the
> fuel pump w/some help. Until today, the car was a couple of miles from
> home & I was travelling back & forth trying to resolve the problem. I
> finally gave up & had the car towed home where all of my tools and
> 'stuff' are (yes, yes, my wife TOLD me to just have it towed _right_
> when it happened!) :-)

Sounds like you're on the right track with checking all fuel pump motor etc.
electrical connections, even if this only eliminates a lot of things.

Ya know you can order that main relay from www.slhonda.com for $45 + shipping.
It's under "Electrical" etc. then "fuse box-relay horn." Part RZ-0063, as noted
in the center column of the parts listing.

Not to impugn your soldering ability. Nor others': I'm pretty convinced
re-soldering should work, based on the many reports at the newsgroup. I
completely replaced my 91 Civic's main relay in 1999, but I didn't know
re-soldering was an option then. I have had no hot weather or other
relay-related car problems since.

I'd be just a teensy bit inclined to definitely eliminate the main relay as the
problem, but that's more a comment on my lack of soldering experience...

> Now that I have two people, it'll be easier to do the 'listening' test
> for the pump, and I can have her turn the key while I check voltage at
> the pump.
>
> This really has me stumpped, but (with the great help I'm getting!) I'm
> SURE I'll figure this out! And I'll certainly post back any
> info/findings.

Your misfortune will be someone else's (maybe my!) fortune some day soon.

Hang in there.

Re the towing: Ya, the spouses always know... :-)