The puOn Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:07:11 -0400, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>news:Xns9CA0ABC6AF1B9tegger@208.90.168.18...
>> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:haqhnu$72n$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9CA08A5B74963tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Plus I gave you another clue: Check to see if the side markers and
>>>> license plate lights work.
>>>
>>>
>>> At this point I would bet money it's a bad ground. With the engine
>>> off, the lights are getting their ground through some circuit that is
>>> off with the engine off (question about if this is truly tied to the
>>> engine running or just the run vs. accessory vs. off position of the
>>> key switch hasn't been answered yet).
>>>
>>> But I'll bet it's similar to the situation that happens sometimes
>>> where a persons brake lights only work when the headlights are off or
>>> the tail lights work only when the brake pedal isn't pressed.
>>>
>>> Bad ground.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I considered a bad ground as well, but dismissed that as being unlikely.
>> The grounds are on the interior of the body shell and are rarely
>> defective.
>> The one exception is the taillight ground in the hatchback. That one is
>> sometimes damaged in bad rear-end collisions.
>>
>> Power to the taillights is switched. Ground is permanent. This is the
>> opposite of the horn circuit, where the horns are always live and ground
>> is
>> supplied by the horn contacts in the steering wheel.
>>
>> In any case, if the OP would check his front marker lights and rear
>> license
>> plate lights and see if they behave the same as the taillights, that would
>> give us a clue. The markers and taillights use different grounds, but the
>> taillights and license plate lights use a common ground.
>>
>> Actually, the same power source feeds:
>> radio
>> taillights
>> front markers
>> license plate lights
>> glove box light
>> heater control panel lights
>> clock
>> cigarette lighter
>> and many other things. These use many different ground points.
>
>
>I see your point. But as a former after market installer I have seen this
>way too much. Often times (mis) blamed on the stereo. On many of these
>cars a few items use a shared ground and if the grounding bolt has worked
>itself loose or rusted (this is an almost 20 year old vehicle) it becomes a
>"floating" ground that is no longer ground when the 2nd circuit is also
>energized.
>
>Could be either... My money is on the ground.

Ok some more clues.

1. all lights work with ignition in off position,when key is in aux or
engine running I have no side marker lights,liscence plate light or
tail lights.clock and heater lights work.
2.Lots of rain the last few weeks some condensation in back tail light
lenses.
3.car is a hatchback with no damage.
4. Car is worth the effort 20 years old seen winter twice no rust
197000km.

Bill Gavin