"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C4253A6B5FD1jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.83...
> "Isaiah" <isaiah@isaiah.org> wrote in
> news:h31af5$qg1$1@news.albasani.net:
>
>>
>> "Leftie" <No@Thanks.net> wrote in message
>> news:ioU4m.10421$Il.4190@newsfe16.iad...
>>> Isaiah wrote:
>>>> "jolly" <freedatingsites@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4026449f-b8ec-49d0-a4cf-cf561ad13031@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.co
>>>> m...
>>>>> BMW Mini to Sell Electric Cars in U.S. From Summer 2009...
>>>>> http://www.techespot.com/2009/06/bmw...tric-cars-in-u
>>>>> s.html
>>>>
>>>> Hmm...try recharging that thing in CT, where the KW per hour
>>>> charge
>>>> is $0.23. I wonder which would have larger carbon footprint, a
>>>> gas
>>>> powered vehicle or the fossil fuel needed to recharge an all
>>>> electric vehicle.....
>>>
>>> The gasoline powered vehicle. In fact, even where the
>>> electricity
>>> comes from coal, it still pollutes less using an EV than an IC
>>> vehicle. But don't let inconvenient reality intrude on your rant!
>
>>
>> It's not a rant, it is quite the contrary. One was an observation,
>> the other is a viable question. Many proponents of electric cars
>> talk
>> about no emissions, yet there are emissions from the power
>> generation
>> that is required to charge the vehicle, but I never have looked
>> into
>> it, and thought someone may have the information readily available,
>> so
>> I guess I'll do a little digging for a few minutes to try and get
>> some
>> facts to answer my own question.....
>>
>> http://www.gm-volt.com/index.php?s=r...-volt.com/inde
>> x.php?s=recharged
>>
>> At the bottom of this page from the above link, it it shows a
>> rating
>> of 26-38 KWH per 100 miles, and an average of 32.5. At the
>> electric
>> rates in CT, the cost would be about $7.47 to operate per 100
>> miles.
>> A gas vehicle that gets 35 MPG would take almost 3 gallons to to
>> operate, so even at the rate of electricity in CT, at the current
>> cost
>> of fuel, this electric car would be an operational winner in that
>> respect.
>
> Ah,but when the Obama carbon "cap n trade" goes into
> effect,coal-generated
> electricity will SOAR in price(and US economy will take a nasty
> dive).
> Obama has said he wants to put the coal electrics out of business.
> That's >50% of US electric capacity.Obama will only allow nuclear
> plants
> when we have "safe storage",but is killing Yucca Mtn repository by
> cutting
> it's funding. Solar and wind cannot make up the difference.
> Also,we are aleady near full capacity;no room for additional
> electric
> loads.
>>

IOW, any financial gain will be negated, which will reduce the amount
of EV sold. Maybe if we let them place up to 3 spent fuel rods under
each new home built.....

>> http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electri...t/co2emiss.pdf
>> has some information on carbon footprint for for differing types of
>> power generation (for most recent year 2000).
>>
>> Type Lbs/KWH Grams/KWH
>> Coal 2.117 961
>> Petroleum 1.915 869
>> Gas 1.314 596
>>
>> According to http://www.terrapass.com/carbon-footprint-calculator/
>> a
>> Ford focus emits just about 318K grams per 1,000 miles driven
>> (can't
>> validate the numbers, I just found it and used the Focus and
>> reduced
>> what I got to a per 1k miles)
>>
>> Using electricity, an all electric vehicle like the one shown above
>> in
>> the first link would need about 325 KWH to drive 1000 miles, coal
>> CO2
>> emissions would be about 312K grams, while petroleum generation
>> would
>> be 282k grams and gas generation would be 194k, and improvement of
>> 2%,
>> 11,5%, and 39% respectively.
>>
>> So in this comparison, if your power generation is mainly coal,
>> there
>> is marginal benefit, while the others get progressively better.
>> Unfortunately in the DOE document, it shows that about 50% of our
>> power generation is based on coal, so that will minimize the gains
>> on
>> the CO2 emissions. For us to really take advantage of electric
>> cars,
>> it seems what we really need to do is revamp how we produce
>> electricity (though in general, an average CO2 savings of somewhere
>> around 16%-18% if all vehicles were electric is nothing to sneeze
>> at).
>>
>> I wonder how many KWH per 100 miles it would take for an all
>> electric
>> Hummer?
>>
>> (a more up to date document would be more helpful, but I don't have
>> anymore time to invest in it right now).
>>
>> That seems to be a little more realistic.
>>
>>
>>
>
> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline autos
> with
> electrics;many cannot afford it.

I realize this. I just wanted a clearer picture of what is meant by
reduced carbon footprint claims.....

> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
> recharge.

That may or may not be true, depending on how they are used. In
general, we are probably a good 20 years off from being able to change
ove en-masse IMO.

>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net