In article <sI6dnSpik8YrK-PVnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Art" <begunaNOSPAMPLEASE@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Buying either is a mistake considering current gas prices. I would hold on
> to what you have until an equivalent hybrid is available at a reasonable
> price.


What do you consider a reasonable price? In my opinion there is no
hybrid that is priced reasonably, yet. Plus, it is only intermediate
technology.

The Sienna gets 25-28 MPG. If he needs a larger vehicle, the Sienna is
an excellent choice. Excellent ride, good gas milage, reliable.




>
>
>
> "Todd H." <subaru@toddh.net> wrote in message
> news:84bq0y1f2g@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > I mean could they make the decision any more freakin difficult? These
> > are both really really nice vechicles for those in the minivan market,
> > and choosing between them is damned hard.
> >
> > I wanted to share my notes for any other poor bastard facing the same
> > paralyzing decision. Yes, I'm an engineer, for better or worse. I
> > guess the good news is that it seems hard to go wrong with either of
> > them. I was shopping in a mid trim for both, and looking to pay around
> > $26k before taxes. The Toyota dealer I'm working with has been
> > AMAZING in the sales process and let me take a brand new one home
> > overnight to see how we liked it, so I have had the opportunity to put
> > about 70 miles on the vehicle and get a very good feel for it. The
> > Honda I haven't spent as much time behind the wheel with but have
> > taken on a side street test drive after much time in the Sienna.
> >
> > For specs/details specific to the trims I'm shopping, look here
> >
> > http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimC...111B0,USB80HOV
> > 011B0
> >
> >
> > Toyota Sienna LE 7 passenger $25,741+ttl (assuming incentive financing)
> > w/ options QF AL TO RL FE
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > + 4 year 0% financing currently available
> > + engine power - actually chirped tires by mistake on an onramp
> > passing a truck 22 more hp than Honda.
> > + 3 more MPG than the Odyssey EX
> > + reliability "above average" by CR verus "average" for Odyssey
> > + Interior feels more refined. Dash/instrumentation looks much cooler
> > + feels a bit more spacious, much more cargo room than Odyssey with all
> > seats occupied, third row seat visually felt wider (and sure enough,
> > specs show 3" more hip width in third row)
> > + comes with Home link and integrated compass in the QF extra value
> > package 2 that most dealer vehicles are delivered with.
> > + This is silly, but ... you know when you have a gallon of milk in a
> > grocery bag, or Chinese take out, and you put it on the floor of the
> > passenger seat.... and you need the bag handles to be held up so the
> > upper entre don't slide off or fall on their side and leak
> > everywhere? Toyota thought of this and has a retractable little
> > hook just to the left of the passenger seat just below kneecap
> > level. Brilliant!
> > + Timing chain, not belt. As someone who lost a timing belt on an 86
> > Civic years ago, and most recently had 9 months of drama and over a
> > thousand bucks chasing down a subtle performance problem on my 2001
> > Subaru that got traced back to an issue with the installation of the
> > 2nd timing belt the thing has been scheduled for... I'm likin the
> > idea of not having a fuggin timing belt!
> > ? Very cushy touring ride,
> > ? Very cushy easy steering w/ less feedback. These are plusses for
> > the wife, - for me.
> > - to get 8 passengers you need to select an 8 passenger model in which
> > you don't have captains chairs/arms in the 2nd row at all even if
> > you get rid of the middle seat (which you'd have to remove from the
> > vehicle, not just fold down and out of the way)
> > - choosing options packages FAR more confusing than Honda's approach,
> > but as it turns out, the mostly build an options mix that's rather
> > EX like in the Sienna LE so picking options is easier in dealer
> > stock than on paper.
> > - The stock stereo seems to have annoyingly boomy bass that the bass
> > control doesn't seem to trim out.
> > - Driver Front Side crash rating is 4 star verus Honda's 5star. Rear
> > dynamic crash rating is poor vs Honda Good. All other crash ratings
> > are similar.
> > - Apart from the usual too boring, or "too dark and will fade and show
> > salt badly in winter" colors, the blue Toyota has this year is not
> > as rich or eye catching as Honda's Ocean Mist Blue.
> >
> > Honda Odyssey EX $25,399+ttl (invoice-1500, assumes incentive financing)
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > + Brilliant 2nd row seat layout. The Honda mini 8th seat is just a
> > fabulous design. It gives you an 8th passenger option (albeit for a
> > narrow- assed friend) when you need it, but keeps your 2nd row main
> > seats with captain's chair arms.
> > + quite a bit less body roll on turns than Sienna
> > + the integrated-into the door pull up rear sunshades are very slick
> > + crash rating 5 star for driver, good for rear collisions. Toyota 4
> > star/poor.
> > + As a fan of the blues in these two vans, the Ocean Mist Blue Honda
> > has is quite sharp versus Toyota's lighter blue.
> > + 1500 cash back w/ financing, or 2500 cash back without
> > - 0.9% 3 year, or 1.9% 4-year financing are both much more costly than
> > Toyota's 0% 4 year!
> > - engine and gearing while extremely capable is noticeably less manly
> > than Sienna off the line and in the passing lane
> > - brakes on the new unit I test drove felt squishier than Toyota
> > - slightly lower fuel economy than the Sienna, as the EX trim doesn't get
> > cylinder management (you'd need to buy leather EX-L to get there)
> > ? steering responsiveness/feedback is much more crisp, requires a bit
> > more effort. Wife doesn't like this, I prefer it. Makes it feel
> > nearly sporty, actually.
> > ? tighter feeling suspension
> > - expected reliability just average per Consumer Reports, yet every
> > Odyssey owner I know seems to report they've had no problems.
> > - No compass at this trim level. This would annoy the shit out of
> > engineer me.
> > - It's a Honda, and my 1986 Civic experience was--albeit for no fault
> > of Honda's (2nd owner of vehicle and one careless repair guy
> > conspired to make it a bit sucktacular)--far from the trouble free
> > Honda experience other Civic owners had enjoyed, and I'm still not
> > entirely over it.
> >
> > So, the verdict for me, with current incentives: Toyota Sienna. The
> > superior reliability rating is very influential for me as someone who
> > keeps cars a long time, their current "free money for 4 years"
> > financing sounds great to me especialy when the stock market is
> > currently in a historic shitter, the treatment we've received at this
> > Toyota dealer has been unbefrigginlievable, and this dealer's support
> > of a charitable cause near and dear to our hearts (and is related to
> > their willingness to do overnight test drive for us) has garnered huge
> > good will and karma for us as a bonus to the issues above.
> >
> > Comments welcome--hope this roundup is useful for others. They both
> > are great minivans, and I just wish I could put the suspension,
> > steering, and 2nd row seat layout of the Honda into the Sienna!
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > --
> > Todd H.
> > http://toddh.net/
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