Buying either is a mistake considering current gas prices. I would hold on
to what you have until an equivalent hybrid is available at a reasonable
price.



"Todd H." <subaru@toddh.net> wrote in message
news:84bq0y1f2g@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I mean could they make the decision any more freakin difficult? These
> are both really really nice vechicles for those in the minivan market,
> and choosing between them is damned hard.
>
> I wanted to share my notes for any other poor bastard facing the same
> paralyzing decision. Yes, I'm an engineer, for better or worse. I
> guess the good news is that it seems hard to go wrong with either of
> them. I was shopping in a mid trim for both, and looking to pay around
> $26k before taxes. The Toyota dealer I'm working with has been
> AMAZING in the sales process and let me take a brand new one home
> overnight to see how we liked it, so I have had the opportunity to put
> about 70 miles on the vehicle and get a very good feel for it. The
> Honda I haven't spent as much time behind the wheel with but have
> taken on a side street test drive after much time in the Sienna.
>
> For specs/details specific to the trims I'm shopping, look here
>
> http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimC...,USB80HOV011B0
>
>
> Toyota Sienna LE 7 passenger $25,741+ttl (assuming incentive financing)
> w/ options QF AL TO RL FE
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> + 4 year 0% financing currently available
> + engine power - actually chirped tires by mistake on an onramp
> passing a truck 22 more hp than Honda.
> + 3 more MPG than the Odyssey EX
> + reliability "above average" by CR verus "average" for Odyssey
> + Interior feels more refined. Dash/instrumentation looks much cooler
> + feels a bit more spacious, much more cargo room than Odyssey with all
> seats occupied, third row seat visually felt wider (and sure enough,
> specs show 3" more hip width in third row)
> + comes with Home link and integrated compass in the QF extra value
> package 2 that most dealer vehicles are delivered with.
> + This is silly, but ... you know when you have a gallon of milk in a
> grocery bag, or Chinese take out, and you put it on the floor of the
> passenger seat.... and you need the bag handles to be held up so the
> upper entre don't slide off or fall on their side and leak
> everywhere? Toyota thought of this and has a retractable little
> hook just to the left of the passenger seat just below kneecap
> level. Brilliant!
> + Timing chain, not belt. As someone who lost a timing belt on an 86
> Civic years ago, and most recently had 9 months of drama and over a
> thousand bucks chasing down a subtle performance problem on my 2001
> Subaru that got traced back to an issue with the installation of the
> 2nd timing belt the thing has been scheduled for... I'm likin the
> idea of not having a fuggin timing belt!
> ? Very cushy touring ride,
> ? Very cushy easy steering w/ less feedback. These are plusses for
> the wife, - for me.
> - to get 8 passengers you need to select an 8 passenger model in which
> you don't have captains chairs/arms in the 2nd row at all even if
> you get rid of the middle seat (which you'd have to remove from the
> vehicle, not just fold down and out of the way)
> - choosing options packages FAR more confusing than Honda's approach,
> but as it turns out, the mostly build an options mix that's rather
> EX like in the Sienna LE so picking options is easier in dealer
> stock than on paper.
> - The stock stereo seems to have annoyingly boomy bass that the bass
> control doesn't seem to trim out.
> - Driver Front Side crash rating is 4 star verus Honda's 5star. Rear
> dynamic crash rating is poor vs Honda Good. All other crash ratings
> are similar.
> - Apart from the usual too boring, or "too dark and will fade and show
> salt badly in winter" colors, the blue Toyota has this year is not
> as rich or eye catching as Honda's Ocean Mist Blue.
>
> Honda Odyssey EX $25,399+ttl (invoice-1500, assumes incentive financing)
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> + Brilliant 2nd row seat layout. The Honda mini 8th seat is just a
> fabulous design. It gives you an 8th passenger option (albeit for a
> narrow- assed friend) when you need it, but keeps your 2nd row main
> seats with captain's chair arms.
> + quite a bit less body roll on turns than Sienna
> + the integrated-into the door pull up rear sunshades are very slick
> + crash rating 5 star for driver, good for rear collisions. Toyota 4
> star/poor.
> + As a fan of the blues in these two vans, the Ocean Mist Blue Honda
> has is quite sharp versus Toyota's lighter blue.
> + 1500 cash back w/ financing, or 2500 cash back without
> - 0.9% 3 year, or 1.9% 4-year financing are both much more costly than
> Toyota's 0% 4 year!
> - engine and gearing while extremely capable is noticeably less manly
> than Sienna off the line and in the passing lane
> - brakes on the new unit I test drove felt squishier than Toyota
> - slightly lower fuel economy than the Sienna, as the EX trim doesn't get
> cylinder management (you'd need to buy leather EX-L to get there)
> ? steering responsiveness/feedback is much more crisp, requires a bit
> more effort. Wife doesn't like this, I prefer it. Makes it feel
> nearly sporty, actually.
> ? tighter feeling suspension
> - expected reliability just average per Consumer Reports, yet every
> Odyssey owner I know seems to report they've had no problems.
> - No compass at this trim level. This would annoy the shit out of
> engineer me.
> - It's a Honda, and my 1986 Civic experience was--albeit for no fault
> of Honda's (2nd owner of vehicle and one careless repair guy
> conspired to make it a bit sucktacular)--far from the trouble free
> Honda experience other Civic owners had enjoyed, and I'm still not
> entirely over it.
>
> So, the verdict for me, with current incentives: Toyota Sienna. The
> superior reliability rating is very influential for me as someone who
> keeps cars a long time, their current "free money for 4 years"
> financing sounds great to me especialy when the stock market is
> currently in a historic shitter, the treatment we've received at this
> Toyota dealer has been unbefrigginlievable, and this dealer's support
> of a charitable cause near and dear to our hearts (and is related to
> their willingness to do overnight test drive for us) has garnered huge
> good will and karma for us as a bonus to the issues above.
>
> Comments welcome--hope this roundup is useful for others. They both
> are great minivans, and I just wish I could put the suspension,
> steering, and 2nd row seat layout of the Honda into the Sienna!
>
> Best Regards,
> --
> Todd H.
> http://toddh.net/