I mean could they make the decision any more freakin difficult? These
are both really really nice vechicles for those in the minivan market,
and choosing between them is damned hard.

I wanted to share my notes for any other poor bastard facing the same
paralyzing decision. Yes, I'm an engineer, for better or worse. I
guess the good news is that it seems hard to go wrong with either of
them. I was shopping in a mid trim for both, and looking to pay around
$26k before taxes. The Toyota dealer I'm working with has been
AMAZING in the sales process and let me take a brand new one home
overnight to see how we liked it, so I have had the opportunity to put
about 70 miles on the vehicle and get a very good feel for it. The
Honda I haven't spent as much time behind the wheel with but have
taken on a side street test drive after much time in the Sienna.

For specs/details specific to the trims I'm shopping, look here
http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimC...,USB80HOV011B0


Toyota Sienna LE 7 passenger $25,741+ttl (assuming incentive financing)
w/ options QF AL TO RL FE
--------------------------------------------------------------------
+ 4 year 0% financing currently available
+ engine power - actually chirped tires by mistake on an onramp
passing a truck 22 more hp than Honda.
+ 3 more MPG than the Odyssey EX
+ reliability "above average" by CR verus "average" for Odyssey
+ Interior feels more refined. Dash/instrumentation looks much cooler
+ feels a bit more spacious, much more cargo room than Odyssey with all
seats occupied, third row seat visually felt wider (and sure enough,
specs show 3" more hip width in third row)
+ comes with Home link and integrated compass in the QF extra value
package 2 that most dealer vehicles are delivered with.
+ This is silly, but ... you know when you have a gallon of milk in a
grocery bag, or Chinese take out, and you put it on the floor of the
passenger seat.... and you need the bag handles to be held up so the
upper entre don't slide off or fall on their side and leak
everywhere? Toyota thought of this and has a retractable little
hook just to the left of the passenger seat just below kneecap
level. Brilliant!
+ Timing chain, not belt. As someone who lost a timing belt on an 86
Civic years ago, and most recently had 9 months of drama and over a
thousand bucks chasing down a subtle performance problem on my 2001
Subaru that got traced back to an issue with the installation of the
2nd timing belt the thing has been scheduled for... I'm likin the
idea of not having a fuggin timing belt!
? Very cushy touring ride,
? Very cushy easy steering w/ less feedback. These are plusses for
the wife, - for me.
- to get 8 passengers you need to select an 8 passenger model in which
you don't have captains chairs/arms in the 2nd row at all even if
you get rid of the middle seat (which you'd have to remove from the
vehicle, not just fold down and out of the way)
- choosing options packages FAR more confusing than Honda's approach,
but as it turns out, the mostly build an options mix that's rather
EX like in the Sienna LE so picking options is easier in dealer
stock than on paper.
- The stock stereo seems to have annoyingly boomy bass that the bass
control doesn't seem to trim out.
- Driver Front Side crash rating is 4 star verus Honda's 5star. Rear
dynamic crash rating is poor vs Honda Good. All other crash ratings
are similar.
- Apart from the usual too boring, or "too dark and will fade and show
salt badly in winter" colors, the blue Toyota has this year is not
as rich or eye catching as Honda's Ocean Mist Blue.

Honda Odyssey EX $25,399+ttl (invoice-1500, assumes incentive financing)
---------------------------------------------------------
+ Brilliant 2nd row seat layout. The Honda mini 8th seat is just a
fabulous design. It gives you an 8th passenger option (albeit for a
narrow- assed friend) when you need it, but keeps your 2nd row main
seats with captain's chair arms.
+ quite a bit less body roll on turns than Sienna
+ the integrated-into the door pull up rear sunshades are very slick
+ crash rating 5 star for driver, good for rear collisions. Toyota 4
star/poor.
+ As a fan of the blues in these two vans, the Ocean Mist Blue Honda
has is quite sharp versus Toyota's lighter blue.
+ 1500 cash back w/ financing, or 2500 cash back without
- 0.9% 3 year, or 1.9% 4-year financing are both much more costly than
Toyota's 0% 4 year!
- engine and gearing while extremely capable is noticeably less manly
than Sienna off the line and in the passing lane
- brakes on the new unit I test drove felt squishier than Toyota
- slightly lower fuel economy than the Sienna, as the EX trim doesn't get
cylinder management (you'd need to buy leather EX-L to get there)
? steering responsiveness/feedback is much more crisp, requires a bit
more effort. Wife doesn't like this, I prefer it. Makes it feel
nearly sporty, actually.
? tighter feeling suspension
- expected reliability just average per Consumer Reports, yet every
Odyssey owner I know seems to report they've had no problems.
- No compass at this trim level. This would annoy the shit out of
engineer me.
- It's a Honda, and my 1986 Civic experience was--albeit for no fault
of Honda's (2nd owner of vehicle and one careless repair guy
conspired to make it a bit sucktacular)--far from the trouble free
Honda experience other Civic owners had enjoyed, and I'm still not
entirely over it.

So, the verdict for me, with current incentives: Toyota Sienna. The
superior reliability rating is very influential for me as someone who
keeps cars a long time, their current "free money for 4 years"
financing sounds great to me especialy when the stock market is
currently in a historic shitter, the treatment we've received at this
Toyota dealer has been unbefrigginlievable, and this dealer's support
of a charitable cause near and dear to our hearts (and is related to
their willingness to do overnight test drive for us) has garnered huge
good will and karma for us as a bonus to the issues above.

Comments welcome--hope this roundup is useful for others. They both
are great minivans, and I just wish I could put the suspension,
steering, and 2nd row seat layout of the Honda into the Sienna!

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/