In article <mkoe24hacbir8h1rt59ph6mmvu1mmco77i@4ax.com>,
Dick <w6ccd@k7yca.org> wrote:

> They didn't just copy the remote unlock system to the new key. They
> changed the remote program for both keys.

We're talking two different things here:

1) the ignition security code (lets you start the car)

2) the remote lock/unlock system

They *must* copy the ignition security code from your old key to the new
key. If you lose both your keys, then they must perform the costly
operation (much more than $100) of putting an all-new ignition security
code into the computer AND adding that to your keys.

The remote lock/unlock system, however, is far simpler. Each key has a
unique transmitter identity; it's a simple 10 second procedure (per key)
to match up the key to the lock/unlock receiver system inside the car.
You can do that.

If you needed a new key, it by definition must match up with the
ignition security system. But because your key also contains the remote
lock/unlock transmitter, that part of replacing your key also needed to
be done.

One key, but that key serves two purposes, therefore it needed two
things done to fully match it with the car.


> The service advisor told me
> they had to reprogram all the keys and the car.

Not for $100 they didn't. If you went in with one key and came out with
two, and both keys started the car and locked/unlocked the doors, and
all you paid was $100, they did not "reprogram all the keys and the car".

The fact that your lost key continued to start the car is the final
proof. They never touched the ignition security code itself, other than
copying it from your existing key into the new key. That's standard
procedure. Also standard procedure is the 10 second mating of the new
remote transmitter to the car.



> This is evidenced by
> the fact that the old (previously lost) key will no longer unlock
> remotely.

Not at all. I have four remotes programmed to my van, and sometimes one
of those will lose its "mind"--that is, the receiver in the car loses
its knowledge of the remote in question. I have to perform the 10
second procedure for that remote again. The procedure doesn't touch the
other keys.

It's not impossible that they cleared the remote lock/unlock system and
started it from scratch, but that would have been another 10 second
procedure by itself. The remote lock/unlock system and programming a
new key transmitter for it is something you could have Googled the
instructions for and done yourself. Probably would have saved you $50.

The fact that your lost key still starts the car is proof that they
didn't "reprogram all the keys and the car" with regard to the ignition
security system. That's very costly to do.


> Something I haven't figured out yet is why, if they only copied the
> ignition security and remote codes to the new key, did I get charged
> for programming 3 keys, which included the valet key without any
> remote buttons?

That's an excellent question to ask your service manager.

Please note: they did not COPY the remote lock/unlock code to the new
key. The copying of codes relates ONLY to the ignition security system.
The lock/unlock system is separate and operates differently. The system
in the car can recognize up to four transmitters, and there's a specific
10 second sequence to go through that requires that the new key be
physically present at the car. This process does not alter the code in
the transmitter itself; the transmitter already has a unique code in it
from the factory. This procedure merely establishes a link between that
transmitter and the car's lock/unlock computer. The link is verified by
the fact that the key is physically at the car and that the key can
physically operate the door lock. Once that dance is completed, the
car's computer is convinced that this particular key is supposed to
operate this particular car, and the computer remembers that for remote
operations.

It's only a 10 second dance.

Like I said, the $100 paid for $50 of key plus ignition security code
transfer, and $50 worth of matching the new transmitter in the new key
to the car's remote lock/unlock system.

The reason you're here asking all of this is because you don't know how
the systems work, and you're looking for people who do know. You've
found one--but you're resisting believing that person.

You could believe a guy who spent a half hour of his life going over all
of this FOR FREE with a COMPLETE STRANGER, or you can believe the
dealership service department who just printed out a load of crap for
you to get your hundred bucks.

The key points (pun intended) to consider are these:

1) you were charged only $100, which does not in any way, shape, or form
pay for anything regarding the ignition security code inside the car
itself

2) your lost key still starts the car

It can't be any plainer to someone like me who knows how this works.
You may choose not to believe me; that's your business.



> It may be time to go back and have a talk with my
> Honda dealer.

I'd say so.