my friend has her heart set on getting a honda civic, and we are going to the dealership to get one. when negotiating price and whatnot, what are some counterpoints i could use about the car to get the salesmen to come down off the price or put us in a better negotiating position? i know theyll probly bring up the whole hondas last forever etc., i need to know the bad sides and what other cars i could say we are looking at and are better, and anything else thats negative about them. thanks!