Tegger wrote:
> "TomC" <ooo@ooo.com> wrote in
> news:01c74f07$82e72420$6501a8c0@tomc.hsd1.pa.comca st.net.:
>
>> Vehicle 2000 Accord 4dr. V6 Automatic 81,000 miles, bought new. New
>> Tires and alignment just done. However, the car's rear wheels do not
>> track the front wheels; slightly offset to the right looking at the
>> car from the rear. Slight oversteer in a curve to the right. Tire shop
>> says the axle offset is 0 according to their alignment equipment. So,
>> they say nothing is wrong. The car's original tires lasted 60,000 mi.
>> (Michlens). I replaced them with Traction T/A's and they were
>> horrible; poor wear, noisy (I missed rotating untill about 12,000miles
>> and by then they were ruined). I believe part of the problem was this
>> axle offset issue. How it came about is a mystery. Prior to replacing
>> these tires, I tried to get the alignment issues fixed at a Honda
>> dealer, but they seemed more intersted in selling new tires and cabin
>> filters. So, they were little help. How do I get this axle offset
>> checked and corrected ?
>>
>
>
>
> The "dog-tracking" you describe is normal.
>
> So long as the alignment shop made sure the front wheels were properly
> aligned to the centerline bisecting the rear wheels, it is acceptable to
> have some dog-tracking, and perfectly acceptable for the rear axle
> centerline to diverge from the body's centerline.
>
> Both sides of the rear end of your car are adjustable for toe. Ideally
> you'd adjust the toe on both sides so the rear axle centerline coincides
> with the car's body's centerline. But it's common practice for alignment
> techs to only adjust one side if the rear toe isn't far out, resulting
> isn some harmless dog-tracking.

completely disagree!!!

yes, it's common for it to happen because a lot of these guys don't know
what's up, but it's not correct and /completely unacceptable/!!!

here's the reason why: the very last time i had my civic done, i was
informed that they'd adjusted it as good as they could make it, but
since the rear wasn't adjustable, there was nothing more they could do.
the car has some crash damage evident, so initially, they weren't even
prepared to look any further. however, i explained that the rear /was/
adjustable, and showed them where and how it was done. now, here's the
kicker - the data book they were using /did/ say the rear wasn't
adjustable!!! just like if you go to a parts store and look in the bulb
book, the bulb number listed for the civic rear license plate is
incorrect. basically, once a mistake gets into the data system, it gets
"preserved" and passed from generation to generation. the only sure way
to get this stuff fixed is to go armed with the factory honda workshop
manual with the relevant page bookmarked.

honda handling is /particularly/ sensitive to rear toe, so it's
essential this be done right. again, front and rear toe /is/
adjustable, therefore thrust is adjustable and should be set straight as
an arrow. only a bent frame prevents this being achieved, and then,
only when the frame is bent beyond adjustment limits.

>
> Having said the above, it is NOT acceptable to have LOTS of dog-
> tracking though. And it is NOT sufficient to simply point to the numbers
> the machine gives you and say the car's been set up properly. Sometimes
> a bit of fudge and squish is necessary to do the job right, and that's
> where skill comes in rather than simple menu-following.
>
> The tire wear you eperienced is not necessarily due to any centerline
> issue. It can also be due to bad mounting, poor quality tires, worn
> shocks and a host of other suspension problems. Most likely the tires
> were badly mounted to begin with.
>
> Your factory tires were mounted by expertly-trained people. Your
> replacements were not.
>
> I have found that most tires are mounted very badly. Tire shops have
> badly trained personnel who have no clue how to get the tires to spin
> true before balancing. They just slap them on the wheels (using the
> wrong lube while they're at it) and load the wheel up with weights. The
> tires may end up feeling smooth to you, but with each revolution they
> are scrubbing themselves unevenly against the pavement, eventually
> wrecking the tread.
>
> Does the car track straight, hands off the wheel? Does it follow the
> road crown equally both sides of the crown? Then you're likely fine as
> far as alignment goes. If the tires are that bad, you need to replace
> them, and have the job done by a competent shop. Those are hard to find.
>
>