"Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
newsEnWf.53702$F_3.26587@newssvr29.news.prodigy. net...
>
> "mpwilliams" <m.p.williams@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:OwnWf.7947$x94.5381@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>> "Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
>> news:nSkWf.6585$4L1.4941@newssvr11.news.prodigy.co m...
>>>
>>> "mpwilliams" <m.p.williams@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:GleWf.9022$Bj7.8329@newsread2.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>>>> "Bob Jones" <email@me.not> wrote in message
>>>> news:yG3Wf.48944$2O6.18664@newssvr12.news.prodigy. com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:AOadnfQyj-cKILXZRVn-rQ@speakeasy.net...
>>>>>> Bob Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>not true guy. it depends on where you go, and whether they're any
>>>>>>>>good. i've watched a "trained" honda technician leave the oil filter
>>>>>>>>gasket in place, then screw a new filter and gasket on top of it on
>>>>>>>>my civic once. he looked most "confused" when a fountain of oil
>>>>>>>>sprayed literally 3' out of the engine compartment. so i say again,
>>>>>>>>there's no guarantee that a honda tech is better than any other on
>>>>>>>>the dumb as rocks stuff like this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No matter where you go, there is always a chance they will screw it
>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I took my new car to the dealer for its first oil change. When it
>>>>>>> was all done, I started the engine. A lot of smoke came out. A
>>>>>>> senior mechanic came out and he said some oil got spilled on the
>>>>>>> engine. He flushed the oil off the engine but I still had to smell
>>>>>>> the oil burning for the next 30 miles. I also found out later they
>>>>>>> put 5 quarts of oil in there when it only needs 41/2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was very surprised. I am not a mechanic. I have
>>>>>>> only done oil change myself a few times before and never had any
>>>>>>> problems. So I am going to do my own maintanence from now on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They recommend changing the drain plug gasket every time to avoid
>>>>>>> leaking. I just don't buy it. There must be design flaw if an old
>>>>>>> gasket can damage the oil pan.
>>>>>> it's not the gasket that's causing damage, it's over-torque of the
>>>>>> drain plug stripping threads out of the pan. there's only so much a
>>>>>> manufacturer can do to idiot-proof something so basic. personally,
>>>>>> i've never stripped a drain plug and i only replace the gasket every
>>>>>> 3-5 times i drain, but hey, i'm reckless, inexperienced and
>>>>>> unqualified, so i'm cavalier about such risks.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is a new gasket going to avoid damage if you over-torque. There is
>>>>> really no need to change it that often. A ton of high mileage cars on
>>>>> the road probably never had the gaskets changed.
>>>>
>>>> The drain plug gasket is aluminum, with a Young's modulus (modulus of
>>>> elasticity, the slope of the linear portion of the stress/strain curve,
>>>> derived from standardized materials testing) is lower than either the
>>>> steel drain plug or the aluminum alloy oil pan (which includes the
>>>> drain-hole threads), so overtorquing results in permanent deformation
>>>> of the drain plug gasket before permanent deformation (stretching) of
>>>> the drain-hole threads occurs. The need for a regular change of the
>>>> drain plug gasket arises from the fact that the material from which it
>>>> is made strain-hardens as it is permanently (inelastically) deformed;
>>>> if the drain-plug gasket remains unchanged, the drain-hole threads
>>>> quickly become the most easily-deformed element in the system (drain
>>>> hole, drain plug and drain-plug gasket). This is basic engineering
>>>> mechanics and materials science.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, it will deform if over-torqued. There is no argument about that,
>>> but it is really not the point. The question is whether the gasket
>>> should be replaced at every oil change regardless of the condition. Of
>>> course, I am no scientist, but experience told me that it is
>>> unnecessary.
>>
>> Experience, by its nature, is subjective ... your experience is what you
>> think (or imagine) it is.
>>
>
> No, that's real world experience. It is more real and objective than any
> theory.

You can always tell someone with 'real world experience' ... you just can't
tell 'em much.