"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote
> Well its all back together now, and it is running well,
except at initial
> startup. It takes 10-15 seconds for it to figure things
out, then it goes
> up
> to about 1500 rpms until warmed up, and drops down to the
correct rpm.
>
> I told my sisters husband that this is probably due to
there being air in
> the
> cooling system.

I don't quite see a problem here. How long does it take to
get warmed up?

Maybe there's a bit more detail you could provide. Fifteen
hundred RPM when stopped with the engine running, but just
started from cold, doesn't strike me as too odd; maybe a bit
high.

The RPM should go down to normal idle within ten minutes or
less, I would think. At least, that's how it is with my 91
Civic. Other Hondas shouldn't take much longer.

> I imagine that if the car has been sitting overnight,
> that
> the air in the system would 'burp' up to the top of the
cooling system.
> Pretty much right at the top is the coolant temp sensor,
which would not
> be
> immersed due to the air in the system. After 10-15
seconds though, the
> water
> pump will have primed the system, and the sensor would now
be immersed,
> allowing the correct idle to be attained.
>
> Is this a safe assumption or am I talking outta my a.s?

I'm not wild about the particulars. For example, as the
coolant temperature rises, the air is more readily released
for accumulation at high spots in the system. As it cools,
it should be less likely to come out of solution.

Another regular here was talking about this the other day,
arguing that the water pump will move air out of the system.
To me, that's a very suspect argument. Liquid pumps are
designed to move essentially incompressible fluids, like
drinking water. Most don't do so well when there are gases
in the liquid system as well. That is, full flow won't occur
with gases in the system. To properly "prime" a liquid
pumping system means to remove the air and other gases from
it, usually by applying a liquid head to the system somehow
and giving the air someplace to go.

I'm not quite convinced that by /just/ running the water
pump all the air in a car's cooling system will find its way
up towards the radiator cap, through the overflow tube, and
out the reservoir vent. Ya gotta heat the system up, too,
for one thing, to abet the release of the gases from
solution. For another, ya gotta provide a vent. With the
radiator cap on, and so the system pressurized, those gases
can't really thoroughly bubble out. Hence the purging
procedure has one beginning with a cold engine (and heater
control on max hot), removing the radiator cap from the fill
neck, leaving the cap off, then starting the car. Any air
slowly bubbles out the fill neck. Ya wait until the fan
comes on twice, which means the coolant is about as hot as
it can get, too. Then top off the system, screw on the cap,
and go. Check reservoir level an hour later, a day later,
then a few days, then weeks.

If you're at all worried, why not just do a proper purge,
letting that fan come on twice, and see what happens?

> Other items of note:
>
> Initially, the car had been put back together (without any
work on the
> valves)
> at a honda dealership. 2 items got destroyed when the
t-belt snapped;
> the
> CKF sensor and the lower timing cover. Well there are
already belt slap
> marks on the inside of the timing cover due to incorrect
tension setting
> on
> honda's part.
>
> Also, the timing belt was off by 1 tooth from the
dealership.
>
> I'm pretty pissed at the dealerfor their complete lack of
knowledge
> on how to tell if there is valve damage without actually
just putting it
> back
> together and hearing a cylinder miss.
>
> Thoughts?

Dealer services and Honda specialized independent shops have
disappointed me on technical repair matters at least three
out of some five times. And yes, I was pissed, though I
chalk some of this up to their being under so much pressure
to move cars in and out. They are not necessarily the most
knowledgeable folks. Ya either pay through the nose (same
deal with doctors and now some lawyers, afaic; they don't
know what the heck they're talking about much of the time
and bluff like the best, charging you for every darn
worthless minute to boot) or learn to fix your car yourself.