"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
> Caroline wrote:
> > Jim, today I did some more probing. I got stuck where the manual says to
remove
> > the lower strut mounting bolt. This 10 mm dia. bolt connects the bottom of
the
> > strut to the lower control arm. I PB Blastered the bolt yesterday, both
ends.
> > Put more on today, but it's not like it was seeping down around the threads.
I
> > tried both ends of the bolt. The bolt head required a 14 mm socket. The nut
> > required a 19 mm socket. I tried a 2-foot breaker bar. Went slowly, played
with
> > it for a half an hour or so, started wondering if I had to take the load off
the
> > joint. I kept trying and of course sheared off the bolt head...
> >
> > The car was on two jackstands at the usual jacking points. The manuals I
read on
> > this said nothing about special placement or compressing the spring.
> >
> > Did I mess up? Should I have somehow unloaded the joint where the bottom
strut
> > bolt is?
>
> no, you did the right thing. the thread points into all the oncoming
> crud on the road, including salt, so it wicks in & locks that thing
> solid i'm afraid. iirc, you came from up north and now live in the
> perfect car country, arizona,

Yes, the car was driven for over half its life up North. I am in the West but
have never said what state, yada yada...

> so get "new" shock/strut assys from an
> arizonan junk yard and they'll be perfect.
>
> if you're going to drop the lower control strut from the main trailing
> arm, you will need to jack up the trailing arm to a position close to
> where it is in normal operation - otherwise you'll turn the bolt ok, but
> never get it out once it clears the threads.

Okay.

> if you want to replace the bushings, the "honda method" is to replace
> the whole arm - can't buy all the bushings seperately. however, i
> believe you can buy oem rubber bushings for integras, and they're
> identical. another option is to get the mugen honda bushing set from
> king motor sports. they're harder & firm up the ride a little, but
> they're natural rubber and never squeak, unlike urethane. you need a
> proper fitting bearing press to replace them - the journals are mild
> steel, so just whacking them with a hammer ruins them.

Wow to all. I'll start investigating what's available in my area. At least I
have nearby a good junkyard with some Civics my Civic's vintage in it.

> > I think I'm going to make this a one to two month project. Lotta bushings
there
> > look awful. The bolts are going to be tricky freeing up...
>
> the only one that makes a real difference is the big one that hinges the
> trailing arm. check them with the arms lowered - i bet you'll be
> surprised how badly cracked they've gotten.

Yes, I think I saw this one yesterday. Even without lowering the arms, it looks
awful.

> again, honda don't sell
> those bushings, but i believe you can get them for integras [sic] and
> that saves ~$250 /each/ for the trailing arm assemblies. or again, get
> mugen honda ones.

Okay.

> > The ball joints seemed fine on both sides.
> >
> > I'm still puzzling over the tilt. The springs seem to be the same length,
when
> > compressed. The distances from the top of the springs to the lower mounting
> > bolts are likewise very close.
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your experience!
>
> yeah, unfortunately, that knowledge /does/ come from experience. it's a
> lot of work & a couple of skinned knuckes to replace all the springs
> only to find the old ones are identical to the new, and the car still
> sits funny when you're done.

This helps a lot! Mainly, mucho dinero (much money) saved! Thanks!

> > "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
> >
> >>Caroline wrote:
> >>
> >>>For a 91 Civic LX Sedan, 157k miles, original springs and shock absorbers:
> >>>
> >>>1.
> >>>If a car definitely has one "failed" suspension spring, do people here
> >
> > advise
> >
> >>>replacing both this one and the one on the other side, even if the other
> >
> > side
> >
> >>>appears to show no damage?
> >>
> >>if a spring has "failed", the coil wire has fatigued and broken.
> >
> >
> > Well, engineering-wise, "failed" means the part isn't doing everything it
was
> > designed to do... but I don't want to get into a fight.
>
> no fight here caroline. i just doubt it's the springs. they rarely
> yield, they just fatigue & break, and even that is pretty rare in hondas.

Okay. Good to know!

snip
> > I took off both rear wheels today and measured the compressed spring height.
> > They were very close; approx. 1/4 inch difference, tops. This contrasts with
the
> > approx. 3/4 inch difference between the heights of the chassis at the rear
of
> > the car.
>
> compressed height is a function of the shock travel - need to measure
> free height.

Okay.

snip
> >>much cheaper to go with oem from a junk yard. it's hard to get non-oem
> >>that don't lower 'cos that's where the market is with civics.
> >
> >
> > Don't lower what? Or did you mean "go lower"?
>
> sorry, i mean spring with a shorter free length that lower the ride
> height of the car. like the ricers always have. most all aftermarket
> springs for civics lower the car to some degree as that is the nature of
> demand.

Okay.

> to repeat, if you really want to replace springs, it saves a lot of time
> & effort getting assembled coil/shock assemblies from a junk yard. but
> check the relevant free lengths of your existing springs first - if
> they're the same, or within 1/2", the diffence between the 2 new springs
> i bought to "fix" my problem, you'll see no difference in ride height by
> replacing them. unfortunately, my helm for the '89 [should be the same
> as yours] doesn't specify free lengths, so i can't help you there, but
> the free length of a single [good] spring i have in the garage is
> 12.75". again, within 1/2" of this should be fine.

Okay.

> finally, if for some perverted reason the coils ever were replaced, the
> two variables affecting spring rate are length of wire & diameter of
> wire in the coil. double check the diameter by using an open ended
> wrench. i think they're 11mm wire on the rears, 12mm on the fronts.

Okay, though for the archives, I'm the original owner, have never had a major
accident; the only minor ones were being rear-ended pretty strongly a couple
times; and am certain the car's suspension has never been worked on until now.

If I ever figure out why the car tilts, I'll re-post. But I think it will take
weeks before I find a solution, if I find one. (And I note your doubt I will!
Fair enough!)

Again, many thanks. You've taken a load off my mind on a number of counts. Pun
intended. :-)