Caroline wrote:
> Jim, today I did some more probing. I got stuck where the manual says to remove
> the lower strut mounting bolt. This 10 mm dia. bolt connects the bottom of the
> strut to the lower control arm. I PB Blastered the bolt yesterday, both ends.
> Put more on today, but it's not like it was seeping down around the threads. I
> tried both ends of the bolt. The bolt head required a 14 mm socket. The nut
> required a 19 mm socket. I tried a 2-foot breaker bar. Went slowly, played with
> it for a half an hour or so, started wondering if I had to take the load off the
> joint. I kept trying and of course sheared off the bolt head...
>
> The car was on two jackstands at the usual jacking points. The manuals I read on
> this said nothing about special placement or compressing the spring.
>
> Did I mess up? Should I have somehow unloaded the joint where the bottom strut
> bolt is?

no, you did the right thing. the thread points into all the oncoming
crud on the road, including salt, so it wicks in & locks that thing
solid i'm afraid. iirc, you came from up north and now live in the
perfect car country, arizona, so get "new" shock/strut assys from an
arizonan junk yard and they'll be perfect.

if you're going to drop the lower control strut from the main trailing
arm, you will need to jack up the trailing arm to a position close to
where it is in normal operation - otherwise you'll turn the bolt ok, but
never get it out once it clears the threads.

if you want to replace the bushings, the "honda method" is to replace
the whole arm - can't buy all the bushings seperately. however, i
believe you can buy oem rubber bushings for integras, and they're
identical. another option is to get the mugen honda bushing set from
king motor sports. they're harder & firm up the ride a little, but
they're natural rubber and never squeak, unlike urethane. you need a
proper fitting bearing press to replace them - the journals are mild
steel, so just whacking them with a hammer ruins them.

>
> I think I'm going to make this a one to two month project. Lotta bushings there
> look awful. The bolts are going to be tricky freeing up...

the only one that makes a real difference is the big one that hinges the
trailing arm. check them with the arms lowered - i bet you'll be
surprised how badly cracked they've gotten. again, honda don't sell
those bushings, but i believe you can get them for integras [sic] and
that saves ~$250 /each/ for the trailing arm assemblies. or again, get
mugen honda ones.

>
> The ball joints seemed fine on both sides.
>
> I'm still puzzling over the tilt. The springs seem to be the same length, when
> compressed. The distances from the top of the springs to the lower mounting
> bolts are likewise very close.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!

yeah, unfortunately, that knowledge /does/ come from experience. it's a
lot of work & a couple of skinned knuckes to replace all the springs
only to find the old ones are identical to the new, and the car still
sits funny when you're done.

>
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote
>
>>Caroline wrote:
>>
>>>For a 91 Civic LX Sedan, 157k miles, original springs and shock absorbers:
>>>
>>>1.
>>>If a car definitely has one "failed" suspension spring, do people here
>
> advise
>
>>>replacing both this one and the one on the other side, even if the other
>
> side
>
>>>appears to show no damage?
>>
>>if a spring has "failed", the coil wire has fatigued and broken.
>
>
> Well, engineering-wise, "failed" means the part isn't doing everything it was
> designed to do... but I don't want to get into a fight.

no fight here caroline. i just doubt it's the springs. they rarely
yield, they just fatigue & break, and even that is pretty rare in hondas.

>
>
>>unless
>>you have just a few inches fail off one end of the coil, [unusual] the
>>whole thing will collapse and the suspension will drop to the bump stop.
>>
>>the #1 candidate for what you describe is crash damage. unfortunately,
>>the crumple zones, both front & rear on this car, when activated, will
>>change the shock tower height. if you disassemble both rear
>>shock/spring assemblies, chances are, the free length of each spring is
>>within 1/2", factory spec.
>
>
> The worst crash I've ever had is being rear-ended, but the only notable damage
> at the time was the muffler breaking loose a day or so later. This was years
> apart from the event I suspect caused the tilt (when a very heavy person sat in
> the left rear).
>
> I took off both rear wheels today and measured the compressed spring height.
> They were very close; approx. 1/4 inch difference, tops. This contrasts with the
> approx. 3/4 inch difference between the heights of the chassis at the rear of
> the car.

compressed height is a function of the shock travel - need to measure
free height.

>
>
>>there is a small chance that the springs have taken a "set", but that's
>>really rare because it requires yielding, and the springs operate well
>>within their elastic zone.
>>
>>final possibility is that the rubbers for the mounts have at some point
>>been disassembled and put back wrong.
>
>
> They've never been disassembled.
>
>
>>or that excessive pounding has
>>somehow fatigued them. the rubber on the coil you mention is simply to
>>quiet the coils when they touch - only on the rears as they have a
>>"progressive" spring rating.
>
>
> Tapered springs. Okay.
>
>
>>>Or, given the age of this car and that for most of its life it has been
>
> driven
>
>>>in the winter-salty Northern U.S., would many of you old hands just say:
>
> Splurge
>
>>>and replace all four spring and shock assemblies?
>>>
>>>Or just replace all four springs, if the shock assemblies appear fine?
>>>
>>>Here's the situation:
>>>
>>>The rear left (= driver's) side is lower than the right side by 3/4 to 1
>
> inch. I
>
>>>am almost certain that this is due to having a very large, overweight person
>>>sitting in the car's back, left, passenger seat briefly about 2.75 years
>
> ago, as
>
>>>the next day it looked tilted as I describe above. It has remained so ever
>>>since.
>>>
>>>The rubber casing at the top spring coils in the rear left is broken in a
>
> few
>
>>>places. The metal beneath looks fine. On the other side, the rubber casing
>>>appears to be intact.
>>>
>>>The noises from the car don't seem particularly bad. There are some creaks
>
> when
>
>>>I get in and out to drive it, but otherwise, nothing leaps out at me as
>>>particularly suspect. (I am a slim person; 120 pounds or so.)
>>>
>>>I hope to drive this car in comfort (physical and financial) for at least
>
> five
>
>>>more years. I'd like to break 250k miles on it. I do my own repairs on it.
>>>Recently I learned how to replace (and participated in same) a MacPherson
>
> strut,
>
>>>including overhaul using a spring compressor.
>>>
>>>2.
>>>Advice on which spring compressor to seek is also welcome. I have the
>
> general
>
>>>idea of these but am not sure Autozone's loaners will be sufficient.
>>
>>anything works provided it fits the coil, and the rears on the '91 are
>>/real/ tight. the best type of compressor is where the ends of the
>>spring are compressed, not rolls of the actual coil.
>
>
> Okay.
>
>
>>>3.
>>>Lastly, can I get away with Non-OEM springs, shocks, and bushings, given
>
> that I
>
>>>expect to keep this 42 mpg car only about five more years?
>>
>>much cheaper to go with oem from a junk yard. it's hard to get non-oem
>>that don't lower 'cos that's where the market is with civics.
>
>
> Don't lower what? Or did you mean "go lower"?

sorry, i mean spring with a shorter free length that lower the ride
height of the car. like the ricers always have. most all aftermarket
springs for civics lower the car to some degree as that is the nature of
demand.

to repeat, if you really want to replace springs, it saves a lot of time
& effort getting assembled coil/shock assemblies from a junk yard. but
check the relevant free lengths of your existing springs first - if
they're the same, or within 1/2", the diffence between the 2 new springs
i bought to "fix" my problem, you'll see no difference in ride height by
replacing them. unfortunately, my helm for the '89 [should be the same
as yours] doesn't specify free lengths, so i can't help you there, but
the free length of a single [good] spring i have in the garage is
12.75". again, within 1/2" of this should be fine.

finally, if for some perverted reason the coils ever were replaced, the
two variables affecting spring rate are length of wire & diameter of
wire in the coil. double check the diameter by using an open ended
wrench. i think they're 11mm wire on the rears, 12mm on the fronts.